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  • FIRST POST
    • rajeshk4u
    • By rajeshk4u 16th May 19, 11:20 PM
    • 35Posts
    • 13Thanks
    rajeshk4u
    Should people pay for broadband based on speed?
    • #1
    • 16th May 19, 11:20 PM
    Should people pay for broadband based on speed? 16th May 19 at 11:20 PM
    I used to get bad broadband around 2MB. My neighbhoor could have better speed around 6MB. I just happen to have a rubbish line.

    Out of frustration, I paid extra for fibre, but I am annoyed, I have to pay extra simply because the line quality is so bad. How is that my fault?

    The phone company should be charging based on the broadband speed I can get. Currently the phone companies have no incentive to improve speeds.

    It is unfair, I have to pay for fibre, just to get reliable internet.

    The phone company should dig up the road and fix their network, if they want me to pay the full price for broadband.


    What do people think?
Page 1
    • MovingForwards
    • By MovingForwards 17th May 19, 5:23 AM
    • 1,212 Posts
    • 1,477 Thanks
    MovingForwards
    • #2
    • 17th May 19, 5:23 AM
    • #2
    • 17th May 19, 5:23 AM
    Find a better provider?

    Why should anyone pay by the speed they receive? Can you imagine how much bills potentially would fluctuate by and then all the threads complaining about it.
    • onomatopoeia99
    • By onomatopoeia99 17th May 19, 7:21 AM
    • 5,582 Posts
    • 12,868 Thanks
    onomatopoeia99
    • #3
    • 17th May 19, 7:21 AM
    • #3
    • 17th May 19, 7:21 AM
    The phone company should dig up the road and fix their network, if they want me to pay the full price for broadband.
    Originally posted by rajeshk4u
    With limited exceptions, you don't buy broadband from the network operator. For the majority of residential sites in the UK, the network of phone lines is maintained by Openreach, but you can't buy broadband from them as they are obliged to offer wholesale access to ISPs. So your broadband provider can't "dig up the road" as it is not their wire to "fix".

    If you want to move to a model where the network operator has a monopoly on use of the line so we all have to use their appointed ISP (which would be BT) and to use a different ISP they would have to run their own cable to your house, then you seem to want to make the price of an internet connection far more expensive than it currently is.
    INTP, nerd, libertarian and scifi geek. Home is where my books are.

    5.2kWp system, SE facing, >1% shading, installed March 2019.
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 17th May 19, 7:49 AM
    • 12,526 Posts
    • 5,643 Thanks
    JJ Egan
    • #4
    • 17th May 19, 7:49 AM
    • #4
    • 17th May 19, 7:49 AM
    Speed more speed.
    Cheap more cheap .


    Reliability comes way behind customer asks .


    Better speed more reliable service via FTTP no i dont want to pay the price .


    Fact is we have old to very old copper telephone cables that need replacing .Users are not willing to pay for this to be upgraded .
    • rajeshk4u
    • By rajeshk4u 17th May 19, 1:17 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    rajeshk4u
    • #5
    • 17th May 19, 1:17 PM
    • #5
    • 17th May 19, 1:17 PM
    Find a better provider?

    Why should anyone pay by the speed they receive? Can you imagine how much bills potentially would fluctuate by and then all the threads complaining about it.
    Originally posted by MovingForwards
    How will that solve anything?. It does not matter if I switch from TalkTalk, Sky, BT... they will all use the same physical phone line to my house.

    It just happens my line, has more 'noise' on it, so the internet I can get limited, so say to my neighbours, who happen to have a better line. There are spare lines, but they are worse, then what I have.
    • rajeshk4u
    • By rajeshk4u 17th May 19, 1:26 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    rajeshk4u
    • #6
    • 17th May 19, 1:26 PM
    • #6
    • 17th May 19, 1:26 PM
    Better speed more reliable service via FTTP no i dont want to pay the price .
    Originally posted by JJ Egan
    You mean the shoddy fibre offered by BT, TalkTalk, Sky etc...

    The download speed may be around 38MB (or what ever they promise). However, the upload speed is still 1MB.

    Companies like HyperOptic are offering 150MB or 1GB speed two ways! Both upload and download. Unfortunately, it is n't available everywhere.

    As for customers don't want to pay, what a load of cobblers, these greedy companies have been increasing prices every year, but offering nothing in return.
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 17th May 19, 2:01 PM
    • 12,526 Posts
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    JJ Egan
    • #7
    • 17th May 19, 2:01 PM
    • #7
    • 17th May 19, 2:01 PM
    No i mean the new rollout of Fibre Optic from Open Reach with speeds 300meg plus .
    Starts from 80/20 .



    Hyperoptic 1 gig standard price 63 pm .
    • littleboo
    • By littleboo 17th May 19, 2:57 PM
    • 669 Posts
    • 328 Thanks
    littleboo
    • #8
    • 17th May 19, 2:57 PM
    • #8
    • 17th May 19, 2:57 PM
    So you get 2Mbps today and you pay 2 per month on a new speed related sliding scale of charges. Openreach install FTTC and now you can get 70Mbps, so that means you would be happy paying 70?
    • Colin_Maybe
    • By Colin_Maybe 17th May 19, 5:01 PM
    • 4,131 Posts
    • 2,385 Thanks
    Colin_Maybe
    • #9
    • 17th May 19, 5:01 PM
    • #9
    • 17th May 19, 5:01 PM
    You mean the shoddy fibre offered by BT, TalkTalk, Sky etc...

    The download speed may be around 38MB (or what ever they promise). However, the upload speed is still 1MB.

    Companies like HyperOptic are offering 150MB or 1GB speed two ways! Both upload and download. Unfortunately, it is n't available everywhere.

    As for customers don't want to pay, what a load of cobblers, these greedy companies have been increasing prices every year, but offering nothing in return.
    Originally posted by rajeshk4u
    The upload speed on fibre will be 9Mbps plus, on my fibre I get 37/9.
    • brewerdave
    • By brewerdave 18th May 19, 7:44 AM
    • 5,592 Posts
    • 2,487 Thanks
    brewerdave

    As for customers don't want to pay, what a load of cobblers, these greedy companies have been increasing prices every year, but offering nothing in return.
    Originally posted by rajeshk4u

    Hmmm....not quite -looking back I was paying 17.99pm for <2Mb broadband some 12 years ago - I now get ~ 16Mb service for 3.49pm
    Agreed that line rental costs have increased over the same period - but I'm still paying less in total than I was 12 years ago.
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 18th May 19, 7:57 AM
    • 35,033 Posts
    • 41,115 Thanks
    Browntoa
    You want investment in network for better speeds.

    You want it to be cheap.

    The 2 are not compatible.

    Investment comes from research and investment which both cost huge amounts of money.

    Starve BT of money like this , delay your upgrade in the long term.

    Down near me they are quietly doing a tidying up exercise in all the local green cabs ( if you've seen inside they are normally a mass of tangled wiring) with brand new connection strips and retermination of all the copper pairs. When finished the cabs are tidy and fault liabilities greatly reduced . No fanfare , just done as it needed doing
    Last edited by Browntoa; 18-05-2019 at 8:02 AM.
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 18th May 19, 8:01 AM
    • 12,103 Posts
    • 13,610 Thanks
    Cornucopia
    The upload speed on fibre will be 9Mbps plus, on my fibre I get 37/9.
    Originally posted by Colin_Maybe
    I am getting a similar 38/9. I think (stand to be corrected) that the ISPs served by Openreach upgraded upload speeds some while ago.

    Ever since the days of 1200/75 baud, though, it has always been the case that download speed is more important to end user experience than upload.

    My experience on price is similar to that above: I was with Talktalk for several years, and every time they put the prices up, I would phone them and negotiate a lower price than I'd had before. The lowest price I have ever had for Fibre BB (or indeed any BB) was 20pm (including LR) with Now TV, which has recently finished.
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 18-05-2019 at 8:05 AM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 18th May 19, 8:05 AM
    • 35,033 Posts
    • 41,115 Thanks
    Browntoa
    Speed is not always king , it's the backbone away from your cab . You could have 300mb but with no adequate capacity from the cab you could get the equivalent of 2meg and buffering
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • mnbvcxz
    • By mnbvcxz 18th May 19, 8:50 AM
    • 199 Posts
    • 72 Thanks
    mnbvcxz
    Perverse economics (from the telephone companies perspective.) The slower your internet connection the longer and probably more remote your telephone line. So the people with the slowest speeds ultimately cost the phone company the most to supply. The people getting 80mbps on fibre probably live in dense clusters right next to the telephone exchange/box and so cost the least to supply a line too. So be careful what you wish for, it might not go the way you wish.

    I do agree that while a dead phone line gets fixed its far to hard to get a partly degraded phone line fixed to its full potential, or even to find out what that is. And as mentioned knowing what backend capacity your isp has is very opaque too.

    Prices? I would say prices have actually fallen lately. Its worrying how the headline prices keep announcing rises yet the prices you can get keeps slowly falling. My monthly phone bill including basic fibre, calls and line rental came out at about 25 a month. Which is probably the cheapest its been in 25 years or so. (Not that I wouldn't mind it being cheaper).

    I certainly emphasise though. It is infuriating not to have an easy way to get faster internet like everyone else.
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 18th May 19, 9:12 AM
    • 12,526 Posts
    • 5,643 Thanks
    JJ Egan
    My last up to 52 meg fibre cost 3 pm can hardly be termed expensive .

    My line currently only capable of 35 meg without dropouts .
    No way are OR going to dig up and replace cables for just one user .

    Personally i would like to see a surcharge circa 100 PA on each account to go to a nationwide rollout of optical FTTP .
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 18th May 19, 9:51 AM
    • 12,103 Posts
    • 13,610 Thanks
    Cornucopia
    Perverse economics (from the telephone companies perspective.) The slower your internet connection the longer and probably more remote your telephone line...
    Originally posted by mnbvcxz
    I wonder what the correlation between remoteness and "need" for very high speeds is?
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • prowla
    • By prowla 18th May 19, 10:14 AM
    • 10,385 Posts
    • 8,862 Thanks
    prowla
    How will that solve anything?. It does not matter if I switch from TalkTalk, Sky, BT... they will all use the same physical phone line to my house.

    It just happens my line, has more 'noise' on it, so the internet I can get limited, so say to my neighbours, who happen to have a better line. There are spare lines, but they are worse, then what I have.
    Originally posted by rajeshk4u
    Well, if the speed of the line was the only factor...
    • rajeshk4u
    • By rajeshk4u 18th May 19, 4:56 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    rajeshk4u
    BT are advertising regular broadband for up to 10MB. When I enter my postcode the speed goes down to 1-3MB. Yet the price they quote is the same.

    They should grade phone lines:
    A - good quality
    B - average
    C - poor

    People should pay according to the quality

    On Fibre I am getting 26MB download and 0.6MB upload.

    So they can focus on people with Grade C phone lines to improve them to get them on to Grade A.
    Last edited by rajeshk4u; 18-05-2019 at 5:15 PM.
    • Mister G
    • By Mister G 18th May 19, 5:24 PM
    • 1,061 Posts
    • 649 Thanks
    Mister G
    BT are advertising regular broadband for up to 10MB. When I enter my postcode the speed goes down to 1-3MB. Yet the price they quote is the same.

    They should grade phone lines:
    A - good quality
    B - average
    C - poor

    People should pay according to the quality

    On Fibre I am getting 26MB download and 0.6MB upload.

    So they can focus on people with Grade C phone lines to improve them to get them on to Grade A.
    Originally posted by rajeshk4u
    You need to understand the laws of physics to appreciate that both ADSL and VDSL (FTTC) speed are determined by the length of copper cable from either the exchange (ADSL) or the local cabinet (VDSL).

    The longer the line length, the slower the speed that can be achieved.

    Only with FTTP can this be overcome.
    • Takmon
    • By Takmon 18th May 19, 5:37 PM
    • 586 Posts
    • 554 Thanks
    Takmon
    BT are advertising regular broadband for up to 10MB. When I enter my postcode the speed goes down to 1-3MB. Yet the price they quote is the same.

    They should grade phone lines:
    A - good quality
    B - average
    C - poor

    People should pay according to the quality

    On Fibre I am getting 26MB download and 0.6MB upload.

    So they can focus on people with Grade C phone lines to improve them to get them on to Grade A.
    Originally posted by rajeshk4u
    If your getting 26Mbps (Not "MB") then that is a perfectly acceptable speed. I'm surprised that your only getting 0.6Mbps upload; are you doing this speedtest on a device that is wired in using an Ethernet cable because Wi-Fi is too unreliable for speed tests?.

    The fact that you can get FTTC at your premises then the slow ADSL speed is irrelevant because you can get faster for a similar price on a FTTC connection.
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