Northern Rail Fixed Penalty Notice: Help Please

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  • geordie_taxi
    geordie_taxi Posts: 434 Forumite
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    Fire_Fox wrote: »
    The onus is on the customer to purchase a ticket before travel where possible, not making an effort on the train either does not look good.

    thats wot the train companies want u to think and do but ur rights as per the national rail conditions of carriage state otherwise. unless theres a legal penalty fare scheme in operation (northern have no such scheme) a passenger can board a train without a ticket and if he doesnt find a guard and as long as he buys a ticket before he leaves their destination station they havent broken any laws
    Fares Advisor & Oyster Specialist - Newdeal/ukRail Fares Workshop Accredited
  • geordie_taxi
    geordie_taxi Posts: 434 Forumite
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    Quentin wrote: »
    Edit: I now been sent this

    interesting i got sent the same link seems hes annoying others on that forum to

    but i do agree with wot u say about the scaremongering. cctv is only used by the fraud teams investigating a certain offender over a period of time and not to prove that a random passenger didnt make an effort to see the guard.

    but as stations have cctv it sounds scary/believable and wud make any reader on this forum cough up without question the £80 fixed penalty which as a train company employee he wants
    Fares Advisor & Oyster Specialist - Newdeal/ukRail Fares Workshop Accredited
  • Jeff_Bridges_hair
    Jeff_Bridges_hair Posts: 6,330 Forumite
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    Stigy wrote: »
    It doesn't state that you can pay at your destination either. Keeping it ambiguous to an extent, allows for buying from the Guard, at an interchange station or at your destination. Clever wording that you rightly say would be wrong if being specific.

    Was I wrong to specify the Guard being sought in particular? Probably, but in terms of a TOC prosecuting a passenger, as I said earlier, they could use CCTV evidence etc to prove that the passenger didn't make enough of an effort to buy their ticket. I respect what you're saying and stand corrected.


    I told you that at the very start when you claimed the onus is on the passenger to find the guard on the train.

    I shall repeat it once more should you so wish, There is no onus on the passenger to find the guard on a Northern train if there were no ticket issuing facilities at the start of their journey.

    Seeing as you still wont believe me or you keep arguing the toss, pop over to rail forum and ask them if you want to be told the same.

    I know what you are trying to put accross and in essence it is best practice to try and find the guard to purchase your ticket but they DO NOT have to and can sit in their seat for their whole journey till the guard comes round.

    Its different kettle of fish to what you normally work in your area so whilst bylaws remain the same the practices do not. In fact many people in Norther Trains land have been so used to over the last god knows how many years of paying on the train even at stations where there were facilities that its taking time for them to get used to it. In fact the term 'Pay train' is one that many passengers still use about these services
    "If you no longer go for a gap, you are no longer a racing driver" - Ayrton Senna
  • Jeff_Bridges_hair
    Jeff_Bridges_hair Posts: 6,330 Forumite
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    geordie_taxi wrote: »
    thats wot the train companies want u to think and do but ur rights as per the national rail conditions of carriage state otherwise. unless theres a legal penalty fare scheme in operation (northern have no such scheme) a passenger can board a train without a ticket and if he doesnt find a guard and as long as he buys a ticket before he leaves their destination station they havent broken any laws


    See, again you are giving false information and are wrong. A passenger can ONLY do so if there are no ticketing facilities available or they are broken.

    Why do you bother writing such rubbish when I have explained it 3 times on this thread alone I do not know.

    Oh, I do,, you are trying to get one over Stigy and fllaing flat on your face. Again.

    So much for your signature claiming to be a 'Fares and Oyster specialist' when you cannot get the basic information correct.
    "If you no longer go for a gap, you are no longer a racing driver" - Ayrton Senna
  • geordie_taxi
    geordie_taxi Posts: 434 Forumite
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    Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »
    See, again you are giving false information and are wrong. A passenger can ONLY do so if there are no ticketing facilities available or they are broken.

    Totally wrong jeff and u know that. even if there is ticketing facilities the guards are normally quite happy to sell a ticket if approached as it earns them commission. only when theres a legal penalty fare scheme in place this doesnt happen
    Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »
    Why do you bother writing such rubbish when I have explained it 3 times on this thread alone I do not know. .

    if u explained it 3 times then why did firefox post above seem people didnt believe you and i can understand why
    Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »
    So much for your signature claiming to be a 'Fares and Oyster specialist' when you cannot get the basic information correct.

    petty and pathetic jeff is that the best riposte u can attack me with
    Fares Advisor & Oyster Specialist - Newdeal/ukRail Fares Workshop Accredited
  • Quentin
    Quentin Posts: 40,405 Forumite
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    Stigy wrote: »
    Wow, you really have been digging, haven't you? 2011? I have noticed you posted a selected part of that posting. If you posted the whole thing, people would see, I'm just being my usual, helpful and knowledgeable self.... .

    If you consider your posts on the jobsworths hectors forum to be helpful how come you have to be corrected so many times in this thread?

    Or are you deliberately misleading us to gain some Brownie points off your powerful choccy policeman mates. You certainly
    seem to enjoy coming here and demonstrating how ignorant of the salient points you are.
  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,159 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
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    Going back to the OP...

    It does sound like there is some opportunity for "gaming" here. I would be tempted to write back to them towards the end of the 14 days, asking a question or pointing out your innocence. This may trigger a process where they respond to you, and therefore defeat the summons deadline - which, yes, is 6 months from the offence.

    At worst, you get a second bite at it when you protest your innocence in court. Bear in mind that if this is like other summary offences, you may have two separate hearings if you plead Not Guilty.
  • Stigy
    Stigy Posts: 1,581 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker First Post
    edited 16 April 2013 at 10:26PM
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    geordie_taxi wrote: »
    interesting i got sent the same link seems hes annoying others on that forum to

    but i do agree with wot u say about the scaremongering. cctv is only used by the fraud teams investigating a certain offender over a period of time and not to prove that a random passenger didnt make an effort to see the guard.

    but as stations have cctv it sounds scary/believable and wud make any reader on this forum cough up without question the £80 fixed penalty which as a train company employee he wants
    Demonstrated again that you have no idea. The train company can and do use CCTV if the think it'll aid a case in court and be beneficial, after all, it is theirs to use. This thread is going the same that one did on parking offences when certain other posters wouldn't believe that certain rail staff can question under caution. Again, ignorant barrack room posters without a clue, telling serving rail staff what they're trained in and practice is illegal.

    Jeff, I made it clear in my last post that I was not disputing that it's written down that the passenger needs to seek the guard, just emphasising that it's a grey area because of that reason alone.

    Question, what does my helpful posting on another forum have to do with my helpful posting in this one? Interested to see why anybody would message a member from here that calls their forum a jobs worth forum is anyone's guess, but hey HO!
  • Jeff_Bridges_hair
    Jeff_Bridges_hair Posts: 6,330 Forumite
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    geordie_taxi wrote: »
    Totally wrong jeff and u know that. even if there is ticketing facilities the guards are normally quite happy to sell a ticket if approached as it earns them commission. only when theres a legal penalty fare scheme in place this doesnt happen

    Incorrect again, and as I explained this is why they have signs up at all of their manned stations stating that you must purchase before you travel from said station. Yes a guard may sell you one, BUT if a revenue inspector gets to you before hand - and they have lots of them - then you will recieve a letter for the £80 fixed penalty or be taken to court.

    They are crystal clear about this and the advice I give is the correct advice.

    If you carry on misleading people in these threads then I will start reporting you for doing such a thing because I am tired of it now.
    "If you no longer go for a gap, you are no longer a racing driver" - Ayrton Senna
  • Quentin
    Quentin Posts: 40,405 Forumite
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    Stigy wrote: »
    Again, ignorant barrack room posters without a clue, telling serving rail staff what they're trained in and practice is illegal.......

    You certainly seem to need more training or do you just make it up and sound powerfulwhile dealing with the public??

    See #37 where 5 of your wholly incorrect assertions from just this thread are listed before you refer to anyone else as "ignorant"!
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