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Northern Rail Fixed Penalty Notice: Help Please

I have received a "Fixed Penalty Notice" for allegedly intending to avoid a fare. Although I believe I have a very strong argument against why I in fact didn't commit the offence I would rather just pay the £80 + £3.40 it requests.

However the letter states the offence was committed on the 26th Oct 2012 and the letter has been received and dated on the 9th April 2013. The letter states "No proceeding will be taken for the offence before the expiration of the 14 days from the date of this notice" (they have given me 14 days to pay the fine).

I have read elsewhere whilst reading about these notices that there is a 6 month time limit in which to "lay evidence" to the courts.

My first question is that given the end of my 14 days to pay, the date will be 23rd April... Leaving 3 days for the company (Northern Fail) to "lay evidence" to the courts. Is it safe to ignore this fine then?

Second question: If I am going to pay the fine (I am a student so £83 is quite painful but I am capable of paying it) would it be a stupid idea to send them £80 for the fine and only £3 (instead of £3.40)for the fare as I was not travelling return and the fare prices were lower when the offence took place?
I know 40p is nothing but I despise Northern Rail and would do anything to at least gain a little victory over them!

Thanks in advance if anyone replies!
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Comments

  • wealdroam
    wealdroam Posts: 19,181 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Did they actually state 'fine'?

    Only courts (and some other statutory bodies) can issue fines.

    They have given you 14 days to pay the out of court settlement fee before they even consider starting a prosecution.
  • No it doesn't actually say fine it says "Your matter is in the process of being prepared for disposal at the Magistrate' Court. This notice offers you the opportunity of discharging any liability to conviction for that offence by payment of a Fixed Penalty"
    So I am worried that they might contact the court before the 26th and therefore just within 6 months period (if that 6 month time limit is actually true).
  • adamson909 wrote: »
    I have received a "Fixed Penalty Notice" for allegedly intending to avoid a fare.

    it is not a 'fine' but more of a bribe. u pay us this bribe and we wont prosecute. actually its good for both sides as u wont get a criminal record and the greedy train company makes more money than thru a prosecution. northern's fixed penalty notice has no legal backing but if u dont pay it then they prosecute u by the original byelaws or railway act law that as an Innocent passenger u fell foul off and the only appeals system is via the magistrates court aswell.

    the only other thing to say is as ur a student isnt there any law students in ur uni that cud give better advice on the 'laying of evidence'
    Fares Advisor & Oyster Specialist - Newdeal/ukRail Fares Workshop Accredited
  • HappyMJ
    HappyMJ Posts: 21,115 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    adamson909 wrote: »
    I have received a "Fixed Penalty Notice" for allegedly intending to avoid a fare. Although I believe I have a very strong argument against why I in fact didn't commit the offence I would rather just pay the £80 + £3.40 it requests.

    However the letter states the offence was committed on the 26th Oct 2012 and the letter has been received and dated on the 9th April 2013. The letter states "No proceeding will be taken for the offence before the expiration of the 14 days from the date of this notice" (they have given me 14 days to pay the fine).

    I have read elsewhere whilst reading about these notices that there is a 6 month time limit in which to "lay evidence" to the courts.

    My first question is that given the end of my 14 days to pay, the date will be 23rd April... Leaving 3 days for the company (Northern Fail) to "lay evidence" to the courts. Is it safe to ignore this fine then?

    Second question: If I am going to pay the fine (I am a student so £83 is quite painful but I am capable of paying it) would it be a stupid idea to send them £80 for the fine and only £3 (instead of £3.40)for the fare as I was not travelling return and the fare prices were lower when the offence took place?
    I know 40p is nothing but I despise Northern Rail and would do anything to at least gain a little victory over them!

    Thanks in advance if anyone replies!
    If you didn't commit the offence then why pay at all? It's an offer of a penalty you don't have to pay it.

    I'd allow the matter to go to court and then defend yourself. It's a risk..but it's a risk worth taking....in my opinion.
    :footie:
    :p Regular savers earn 6% interest (HSBC, First Direct, M&S) :p Loans cost 2.9% per year (Nationwide) = FREE money. :p
  • dzug1
    dzug1 Posts: 13,535 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    adamson909 wrote: »
    I have received a "Fixed Penalty Notice" for allegedly intending to avoid a fare. Although I believe I have a very strong argument against why I in fact didn't commit the offence !

    Problem is that most people who believe they have such 'very strong arguments' have nothing of the sort when it comes down to it. What you actually did will weigh stronger than what you thought you intended to do
  • Hi thanks for the responses
    Yeah I know most people think they did nothing wrong which is why I said ill probably just pay it rather than argue my case. The fact is I most likely broke one of the rules about its my responsibility to find the ticket seller on the train. The basic outline was that I didn't buy the ticket on the train and when I got off I asked where I can buy a ticket but that was not acceptable and it was too late apparently.

    Anyway I didn't intend to argue my case but I know that at no point did I intend on not paying which is why it annoys me but as you say what people 'intended' is not good enough.

    What I was really asking was about the whole dates point and whether this 6 month deadline was true.

    I think i'm just going to pay the penalty to be honest just thought as they had taken 5 and a half months to send a letter to me they might have taken too long.
  • C_Mababejive
    C_Mababejive Posts: 11,668 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Did you or did you not commit the offence? How did they know where/who to write to?
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
  • C_Mababejive I don't think you understand what I have been saying...
    I'm not a railway law expert so I don't know all the bye laws etc so whether I have committed and 'offence' is dubious.

    What I have been accused of was attempting to avoid paying a fare which I didn't... but by their rules because I didn't seek out the conductor on the train it was my fault when I thought buying a ticket at the station when I get off was OK which I have done on many times at other stations. You understand?

    Anyway you've missed my point twice as I haven't asked for advice on arguing my point at all, I asked if there is a time limit on which these cases time out the same way traffic fixed penalties do.

    And they knew who to write to because when I asked to buy a ticket I was taken away and asked to hand over my drivers license to take down my details.
  • Quentin
    Quentin Posts: 40,405 Forumite
    adamson909 wrote: »
    .....My first question is that given the end of my 14 days to pay, the date will be 23rd April... Leaving 3 days for the company (Northern Fail) to "lay evidence" to the courts. Is it safe to ignore this fine then?.....

    If you mean is it safe to ignore the letter, they will have the 3 days you mention to just file the necessary docs with the court.

    The court then have time (on top of the 6 months) to process the matter and issue the summons.

    So if you were thinking that if you heard nothing after the 3 days are up you are in the clear, then this is not quite the case!
  • C_Mababejive
    C_Mababejive Posts: 11,668 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    #9 I am in agreement with you. I, like yourself,know nothing of railway law and i also would think it reasonable that if a ticket could not be purchased at my joining station,to get on the train and await the attendance of a ticket person from whom i could purchase a ticket...or failing that,to tender my payment at the arriving station.

    I would think that fair and reasonable and i think any could would think the same.

    If i had been challenged at the arriving station and they were not prepared to sell me a ticket, i would reiterate the above and leave assuming no one was seeking to restrain me.
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
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