Civil Enforcement have issued a Claim Form! HELP!

Stefanoka23 · 28 March 2018 at 12:09PM

Hi guys,
I'm new to this forum, so please be gentle. Also excuse me if this matter has been touched on already but I really need advice on what to do with these cowboys.

Most recent letter the party received amidst 5 other threatening letters from Civil Enforcement, is a Claim Form from the County Court asking either to settle the final amount of a few hundred pounds - pay part of the fee they think they're liable for - or make a counter claim against them.

They're not willing to give up at this stage just because they are being threatened with a court stamp. They have read and heard that CEL are liable to accept the initial cost that the driver should and would have paid if the circumstances had allowed them. The circumstances at this car park are: 2.5 hours parking free, after that, £4 for 24 hours. With the parking eye sensors, the time in was clocked at 08.32 and clocked out at 21.21. Is it possible for the driver to offer them the initial amount that the parking WOULD have cost them, instead of this lovely number they plucked out of the sky of a few hundred quid?! The driver has heard they do not turn up to court most times and if they do go with the counter claim/defence instead of an offered £4 it takes them 28 days to reply and it would cost them to do so and so may pull out?

Basically - ADVICE PLEASE! The driver has a few days left to get back to the court, and they can't ignore this. But they're really wanting to show these guys down.
FYI - Civil Enforcement have been useless, never replying to voicemails, impossible to get hold of, in fact the driver's never spoken to anyone!

Thanks for reading and I look forward to hearing what you have to offer
:money:

Loadsofchildren123 · 28 March 2018 at 12:15PM

Firstly, read this and be glad you got Civil Enforcement Ltd (CEL)

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=74075959&postcount=18

Loadsofchildren123 · 28 March 2018 at 12:22PM

Stefanoka23 wrote: »

Hi guys,
I'm new to this forum, so please be gentle. Also excuse me if this matter has been touched on already but I really need advice on what to do with these cowboys. First thing to do is click on and read the Newbies thread. If you can't work out how to do this, go back to the page that has all the threads posted in this forum, it's in the first ones listed.

Most recent letter I've received amidst 5 other threatening letters from Civil Enforcement, is a Claim Form from the County Court asking either to settle the final amount of £236.00 - pay part of the fee I think I'm liable for - or make a counter claim against them.

I'm not willing to give up at this stage just because they threaten me with a court stamp. I have read and heard that they are liable to accept the initial cost that I should and would have paid if the circumstances had allowed me. Not true I'm afraid. The claim is for a breach of contract (the contract being we offer you parking on the terms displayed on our signage (which include that you have to pay a large sum of money for failing to comply), you accept it by the act of parking). They say you've breached the terms and are therefore now liable for the extortionate sum displayed on the signage (usually £100) and then they add on all sorts of admin charges. The circumstances at this car park are: 2.5 hours parking free, after that, £4 for 24 hours. With the parking eye sensors, driver's time in was clocked at 09.32 and clocked out at 22.10. So therefore the driver feels they can meet them by offering the £4 instead of this lovely number they plucked out of the sky of £236!They won't accept it, I wouldn't bother I have heard they do not turn up to court most times see my previous post - they only do this if you defend properly and if I do go with the counter claim instead of the offered £4 it takes them 28 days to reply and it would cost them to do so and so may pull out? what counterclaim do you think you have?

Basically - ADVICE PLEASE! I have a few days left to get back to the court, and I can't ignore this. But I'm really wanting to show these guys down. read newbies walk through of court proceedings, it tells you what to do and when
FYI - the driver as actually parking to catch a train to purchase a new van, and it all would have have taken less than the 2.5 hours. However the van decided to break down and the driver could not get back to the car until this point. they won't care about this, it's not a valid defence Civil Enforcement have been useless, never replying to my voicemails, impossible to get hold of, in fact I've never spoken to anyone!

Thanks for reading and I look forward to hearing what you have to offer
:money:

Have you identified the driver?

If not, did CEL serve the NtK in time? The NtK and the time limits are all explained in the newbies thread and in countless other threads. There are different time limits depending on whether there was a windscreen ticket or not.

If the NtK was out of time then you can argue the NtK was not validly served and so you cannot be liable as keeper of the car. And neither can you be liable as driver because they can't prove you were driving.

Please edit your first post to remove ALL reference to who was driving.

There may also be issues with the signage (it may not have offered a contract). If you're talking about a railway car park it may be that byelaws apply which makes these proceedings invalid.

You may have various defences.

You need to do this properly to see off CEL. But first you have to get through the defence and the witness statement stage, so be prepared because this will go on for months.

The_Deep · 28 March 2018 at 12:26PM

As you say, the £236 has been plucked out of the ether. Even if they did pay all the court fees, which they have not, and won in court, they would be unlikely to be awarded more than £200. You are also right in saying that they frequently do not turn up for the hearing.

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.

Stefanoka23 · 28 March 2018 at 1:23PM

Thanks guys.
I Never explained I was the driver. Just sent me letters to say I owe them money, and not explaining that they have heard from me (the letter sent was not recorded unfortunately). Never ring back after leaving voicemails. I have edited the post, however it doesn't change the original post which you have quoted.

Also it looks like I am lucky I have CEL, you are right.

What I need to know is how to produce a strong enough, well written claim to show them I'm in business. I will try to search through the forum for templates already used, unless anyone knows where they are already and can navigate me to them? Also out of the the 3 options available to me, should i just go for the Defence and counterclaim? First time I've ever done this ....

The_Deep · 28 March 2018 at 1:30PM

What would you counterclaim for? You did underpay/overstay. They appear not to have misused you data.

Stefanoka23 · 28 March 2018 at 1:36PM

My vehicle broke down, I couldn't get back to my car in time of the allowed 2.5 hours parking. Thats what happened. They ignored all my aims of contact and kept sending me letters. So what, I owe them £325.17 now? I am willing to pay the amount of stay that I was there of which I have heard they are liable to accept, but as others have said, they won't buy any of these. The signs do say if you breach the contract then you're liable to £100 plus fee's. True. So what am I to do, hands up and pay them and just move on?

Umkomaas · 28 March 2018 at 1:48PM

So what am I to do, hands up and pay them and just move on?

Nope, you defend the claim (the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 shows you how to do this) and play the game up to the wire (checking each stage with this forum if you wish) and see CEL back down and discontinue.

Forget 'counterclaim' (it's distracting you) - you seem to have no basis to issue one. Being incandescent about the behaviour of the PPC, hoping for a chance to unload a rant to the Judge, won't cut the mustard in terms of a counterclaim.

nosferatu1001 · 28 March 2018 at 2:43PM

Frustration of Contract is the magic phrase
No monies from a breached contract can be due if the contract was breached due to frustration. None.

Loadsofchildren123 · 28 March 2018 at 3:26PM

Stefanoka23 wrote: »

Thanks guys.
I Never explained I was the driver. Just sent me letters to say I owe them money, and not explaining that they have heard from me (the letter sent was not recorded unfortunately). Never ring back after leaving voicemails. I have edited the post, however it doesn't change the original post which you have quoted.

Also it looks like I am lucky I have CEL, you are right.

What I need to know is how to produce a strong enough, well written claim to show them I'm in business. I will try to search through the forum for templates already used, unless anyone knows where they are already and can navigate me to them? Also out of the the 3 options available to me, should i just go for the Defence and counterclaim? First time I've ever done this ....

I've amended my reply to remove driver references
You need to do the same. Just refer to the driver in the third person.

Loadsofchildren123 · 28 March 2018 at 3:33PM

I wonder if force majeure is a runner here (same sort of point raised by nosferatu)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_majeure

In which case forget concealing the driver's id and produce evidence of the one-way ticket, the purchase of the van and its breakdown. Offer (without prejudice) the £4 as a goodwill gesture with, say, £10 on top for admin fees. Say you've tried again and again to discuss this with them (and say the dates you wrote and called and left voicemails) but nobody ever contacts you back.

They'll say no. Just defend, defend, defend and CEL will back out at the last minute.

Making an offer is optional. Many posters will tell you not to do it but I think with a force majeure issue it seems fair to offer to pay for the parking period even if it was beyond the driver's control.

Civil Enforcement have issued a Claim Form! HELP!

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