Are there any first names that are considered to be trademarked names? (Deed Poll & Passport)

John_Lodge · 10 October 2018 at 4:48AM

AnotherJoe wrote: »

This is for the USA
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Common from the 1900's to 1950's. Then fell off a cliff. So you'd pretty much need to be interacting with people your parents ages and older to meet one.

The name reached its peak in 1920 when it reached #691 on the charts. It has never been a common name.

If you have a look on the Behind the Name website then you will see that the name Madonna has never ranked high on the charts and has always been an unusual name. Since 1968 it has never been in the top /#1000.

According to the baby names hub website:

Records indicate that 7,705 girls in the United States have been named Madonna since 1880.

The greatest number of people were given this name in 1955, when 212 people in the U.S. were given the name Madonna. Those people are now 61 years old.

This explains why the singer Madonna is widely known by her first name Madonna.

And your point is?

Many name their child after someone famous.

If you put US presidents names in the link above you'll get see plenty named to coincide with the presidents dates in office.Theodore, Howard, Calvin etc.

It depends. People tend to only name their children such a name if the name had already been a common name before a famous bearer with the name became a household name. This is simply not the case with a name like Madonna. If one were to say to someone "Madonna" then I highly doubt the person would reply, "Madonna who?"

And if they named a child one of those names, they would likely be one of several in their class as these name fads come and go, and they'd have a lifetime of "yeh i was named after that stupid singer from decades ago dont even like the music"

Only if the name had been a common name before a famous person with the name became a household name. You never hear of little babies being called any of the names I mentioned because they are all strongly associated with certain individuals. The same cannot be said for names like Theodore (Teddy), Howard, Donald, etc.

My wife is a teacher and has never taught anyone with any name that is closely associated with a single individual. You would be hard pushed to find a single child with the name Madonna, Prince, Donovan, Elvis, Cher, Björk, Enya, Shakira, Tiffany, Kesha, let alone several in a class.

Yes, there are people with those names but they are very few and far between.

NBLondon · 10 October 2018 at 9:44AM

John - are you thinking of changing your name to Madonna? Just give it a go - what could go wrong... Or are you wanting to call yourself David and have people offer you novels to sign?

Thinking about that particular example - it's archaic Italian meaning "My lady" but to Catholics it also refers to (the Virgin) Mary, mother of Jesus. So that will affect it's use in Catholic countries or countries(maybe cities) with a notable Italian immigrant presence (which might explain the Australian Madonnas that thorsoak knows). In the case of Madonna Louise Veronica Ciccone - it's traditional in her family. Or for a more common example - Jesus is not that unusual as a male given name in Latin cultures but might seem inappropriate to Anglo Saxons.

Prince, Donovan, Elvis, Cher, Björk, Enya, Shakira, Tiffany, Kesha,

Notice that those are their actual names - Prince Rogers Nelson, Donovan Philips Leitch. Elvis Aaron Presley. Cherilyn Sarkisian, Bjork Gudmundsdottir, Eithne Padraigin Ni Bhraonain (Enya Patricia Brennan is the Anglicised version), Shakira Isabel Mebarak Ripoll , Tiffany Renee Darwish, Kesha Rose Sebert). So the names existed beforehand - maybe not so common in your circles but they exist in the background those singers came from. I have met a Shakira (before I'd ever heard of the singer) and an Eithne. I've not met an Elvis - but I have met an Elton (the sports presenter Elton Welsby).

And your wife must work in an upmarket school if she's never met a Tiffany

How about a Cheryl (Tweedy Cole Fernandez Versini Payne)? or a Melanie (Safka not Brown or Chisholm)?

NBLondon · 10 October 2018 at 9:47AM

NBLondon wrote: »

. Or for a more common example - Jesus is not that unusual as a male given name in Latin cultures but might seem inappropriate to Anglo Saxons.

I do know a Jesus by the way... he works for FedEx and it still causes amusement when we shout across the office "Jesus is here and he's got something for us" or indeed, ask new colleagues "Have you met Jesus? He'll be here about noon."

John_Lodge · 10 October 2018 at 12:49PM

NBLondon wrote: »

John - are you thinking of changing your name to Madonna? Just give it a go - what could go wrong... Or are you wanting to call yourself David and have people offer you novels to sign?

I am quite happy with my name John. :beer:

Thinking about that particular example - it's archaic Italian meaning "My lady" but to Catholics it also refers to (the Virgin) Mary, mother of Jesus. So that will affect it's use in Catholic countries or countries(maybe cities) with a notable Italian immigrant presence (which might explain the Australian Madonnas that thorsoak knows). In the case of Madonna Louise Veronica Ciccone - it's traditional in her family. Or for a more common example - Jesus is not that unusual as a male given name in Latin cultures but might seem inappropriate to Anglo Saxons.

I do know about the historical meaning of the name and that the famous Madonna's mother was named Madonna, after whom she was named. However, it is has never been a common name and the name is strongly associated with the singer.

Notice that those are their actual names - Prince Rogers Nelson, Donovan Philips Leitch. Elvis Aaron Presley. Cherilyn Sarkisian, Bjork Gudmundsdottir, Eithne Padraigin Ni Bhraonain (Enya Patricia Brennan is the Anglicised version), Shakira Isabel Mebarak Ripoll , Tiffany Renee Darwish, Kesha Rose Sebert). So the names existed beforehand - maybe not so common in your circles but they exist in the background those singers came from. I have met a Shakira (before I'd ever heard of the singer) and an Eithne. I've not met an Elvis - but I have met an Elton (the sports presenter Elton Welsby).

Indeed, there were people with the names before the famous people became household names, but the reason those people are known by their first names is because their names were uncommon and were made famous by those people.

It is different with say for example David Bowie who was born David Robert Jones. The change of his surname made no difference because David is a common name.

By the way, Elton Welsby is actually called Roger Elton Welsby but goes by his middle name. He was also born in 1951, way before Elton John became famous.

My uncle knew a Donovan in the 1950s.

When a star has an uncommon name and becomes recognised by their first name, people tend to avoid naming their child with the name. Obviously many people don't like the connection regardless of whether it is good or bad.

And your wife must work in an upmarket school if she's never met a Tiffany How about a Cheryl (Tweedy Cole Fernandez Versini Payne)? or a Melanie (Safka not Brown or Chisholm)?

Put it this way, names like Tiffany and Cheryl are highly unlikely to ever be in a class. :laugh::laugh:

I have never actually met a Tiffany, but I have heard of girls with the name Cheryl.

NBLondon · 10 October 2018 at 1:39PM

However, it is has never been a common name and the name is strongly associated with the singer.

Indeed, there were people with the names before the famous people became household names, but the reason those people are known by their first names is because their names were uncommon and were made famous by those people.

So basically, John, because you and your wife have not encountered these names - they must be uncommon and only associated with the singers and all those parents in other countries and cultures are just a minor distraction?

It is different with say for example David Bowie who was born David Robert Jones. The change of his surname made no difference

No - it didn't make him memorable at all....

because David is a common name.

No !!!!, Sherlock! Now there's a name I haven't encountered in real life and most people would probably associate with a fictional character. Wonder how Conan Doyle came up with it?

By the way, Elton Welsby is actually called Roger Elton Welsby but goes by his middle name.

Didn't know that - only met him once and briefly so we didn't really get on to that level of intimacy:p It's a placename as well so maybe he got it there.

and He was also born in 1951, way before Elton John became famous.

Well Reginald Dwight was born in 1947 and changed his name in 1972 - which might well be about the time that Roger E Welsby was starting a career in broadcasting... Elton Dean - the jazz saxophonist - predates both of them.

When a star has an uncommon name and becomes recognised by their first name, people tend to avoid naming their child with the name.

Maybe people in your social circles do - but what about those who don't announce it in The Times and Country Life? You may well have met a Kylie or two but didn't know it...

NBLondon · 10 October 2018 at 2:00PM

While wondering if the OP is a wind-up merchant or just somewhat disconnected from reality.... Looking at the list of examples he provided shows how single-name fame has changed over the years.

In the first half of the 20th Century, I'd say known only by surname was more usual - Houdini, Valentino, Caruso - and you didn't need the first name because Bert Houdini wasn't famous for anything. Was Elvis the first to be recognisable by first name only? Maybe that is because it was uncommon outside the Southern USA. Cher was still known as Cheryl LaPiere in the early 60s - it wasn't until Sonny and Cher that the one name became recognisable.

Was Madonna the first to start out with the single name as brand name? Nope - Prince was there before here in the late 70s. Melanie (the folk singer best known for "Brand New Key") had her first hits in '68 or '69. Who was the first to actually trademark their name in the US? Don't know, I suspect the record company would have had the idea before the individual.

dreaming · 10 October 2018 at 7:37PM

Or Lulu, or Twinkle (a name that didn't seem to catch on although it was a nickname for a singer called Lynn - not so catchy). Again from the 60s the Irish singer Dana (Eurovison winner long before Dana International).
In the 60s also, I knew 2 girls called Donna (a name I thought was wonderful and so "modern"). It was a lot later that I learned they were both really called Madonna, and both with Italian parents/grandparents.

John_Lodge · 10 October 2018 at 8:44PM

NBLondon wrote: »

So basically, John, because you and your wife have not encountered these names - they must be uncommon and only associated with the singers and all those parents in other countries and cultures are just a minor distraction?
No - it didn't make him memorable at all....

Not at all. Check the records for how many people have those names and how those people are referred to in the media.

No !!!!, Sherlock! Now there's a name I haven't encountered in real life and most people would probably associate with a fictional character. Wonder how Conan Doyle came up with it?

There was no need for such sarcasm. I was simply making a point.

Didn't know that - only met him once and briefly so we didn't really get on to that level of intimacy:p It's a placename as well so maybe he got it there.
Well Reginald Dwight was born in 1947 and changed his name in 1972 - which might well be about the time that Roger E Welsby was starting a career in broadcasting... Elton Dean - the jazz saxophonist - predates both of them.

Which famous Elton do you think the name is more associated with these days?

Maybe people in your social circles do - but what about those who don't announce it in The Times and Country Life? You may well have met a Kylie or two but didn't know it...

I might have and I shall never know. Don't worry, I don't look down on people with more common names; I think that would be a tad bit ironic.

John_Lodge · 10 October 2018 at 8:50PM

NBLondon wrote: »

While wondering if the OP is a wind-up merchant or just somewhat disconnected from reality.... Looking at the list of examples he provided shows how single-name fame has changed over the years.

In the first half of the 20th Century, I'd say known only by surname was more usual - Houdini, Valentino, Caruso - and you didn't need the first name because Bert Houdini wasn't famous for anything. Was Elvis the first to be recognisable by first name only? Maybe that is because it was uncommon outside the Southern USA. Cher was still known as Cheryl LaPiere in the early 60s - it wasn't until Sonny and Cher that the one name became recognisable.

Was Madonna the first to start out with the single name as brand name? Nope - Prince was there before here in the late 70s. Melanie (the folk singer best known for "Brand New Key") had her first hits in '68 or '69. Who was the first to actually trademark their name in the US? Don't know, I suspect the record company would have had the idea before the individual.

Well it is the exact same thing really, an unusual surname is also going to stand out and people are often referred to by their surname. Surely you can remember at school lads with nicknames that were related to their surnames rather than their given names.

Elvis was also uncommon name in the Southern USA, yes the name was used there but it always an uncommon name.

As far as I know, Donovan is also one of the older people that became recognised by their first name.

Are first names trademarked in the US? I think the trademark would be more than just simply the first name alone.

The British singer Laurie Blue Adkins is known by her first name. Even though Adele is not an uncommon name, before her there was not another famous singer called Adele so she is often referred to by her first name.

NBLondon · 11 October 2018 at 9:49AM

John_Lodge wrote: »

Are first names trademarked in the US? I think the trademark would be more than just simply the first name alone.

As explained above - the US Patent and Trademark Office will allow you to trademark your own name as a business (but not someone else's without their agreement). So as an entertainer, it would be a sensible option to trademark multiple variations to protect all opportunities to sell merchandise. Which is probably financially more significant than the possibility of someone else choosing to change to the same name by deed poll. I reckon William James Adams Jr. has trademarked his stage name...

Here in the UK - the Intellectual Property Office doesn't seem to have any specific guidance https://www.gov.uk/topic/intellectual-property/trade-marks

The British singer Laurie Blue Adkins is known by her first name. Even though Adele is not an uncommon name, before her there was not another famous singer called Adele so she is often referred to by her first name.

Adele Astaire (sister of Fred) and Adele Anderson come to mind immediately. You're coming across a bit pompous, John, again assuming that your experience of a name is universal...

Now there's also a difference between someone who has two names and becomes known by one (maybe because they are the best-known in their field) e.g. Beyonce(Knowles-Carter) and someone who is already generally known by just one name or nick name e.g. (Steven Patrick)Morrissey. Paul Hewson became Bono Vox then Bono. Gordon Sumner got the nickname Sting before he was nationally famous. Graham McPherson became Suggs at school years before he was in a band.

Someone who explicitly chooses a single name as a performing name (which then sometimes leads back to trademarking) is I'd say a more recent phenomenon driven by marketing as much as public acclaim. Hence Ke$ha (or Kesha now), P!nk before her and whoever is the latest hyped teen idol - Zendaya perhaps.

Some genres, of course, make more use of the single-name as stage name than others. Marshall Bruce Mathers was "M&M" at high-school, which mutated to Eminem as he became more widely known.

However Cheryl (Tweedy etc.) only tried to become mononymic fairly recently as a re-launch of her brand/image. Were there any famous singers called Cheryl before her - well Rita Crudgington was pretty well known in the 80s

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To save you Googling, folks - that's Cheryl Baker from Buck's Fizz.

Are there any first names that are considered to be trademarked names? (Deed Poll & Passport)

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