BT, transfer contract to another person
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Leaving is not a choice, but that can't be changed, it happens. I'm happy to pay off the contract at my normal price but it would appear I can't.
Example, One month left on contract:
£65 router + £20.50 cancellation charge=£85.50
or
last month of line rental £30 then the router is free.
3 months left is £65+(3 x £20.50)= £126.50 instead of £90 (3x£30)!
Schedule 2 part 1 of consumers rights act 2015:
5. A term which has the object or effect of requiring that, where the consumer decides not to conclude or perform the contract, the consumer must pay the trader a disproportionately high sum in compensation or for services which have not been supplied.
6. A term which has the object or effect of requiring a consumer who fails to fulfil his obligations under the contract to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation.
Surely that is considered a 'disproportionately high sum'? Given that the router is free after 12 months, I should not be required to pay more than the normal 12 months rental to fulfil my contract.0 -
Leaving is not a choice, but that can't be changed, it happens. I'm happy to pay off the contract at my normal price but it would appear I can't.
Example, One month left on contract:
£65 router + £20.50 cancellation charge=£85.50
or
last month of line rental £30 then the router is free.
3 months left is £65+(3 x £20.50)= £126.50 instead of £90 (3x£30)!
Schedule 2 part 1 of consumers rights act 2015:
5. A term which has the object or effect of requiring that, where the consumer decides not to conclude or perform the contract, the consumer must pay the trader a disproportionately high sum in compensation or for services which have not been supplied.
6. A term which has the object or effect of requiring a consumer who fails to fulfil his obligations under the contract to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation.
Surely that is considered a 'disproportionately high sum'? Given that the router is free after 12 months, I should not be required to pay more than the normal 12 months rental to fulfil my contract.
I'm sure this came up on a similar post on this forum or a similar one, I guess that £30/month is what you pay, but this probably isn't the 'list price' of the product , but maybe a discounted price, so you quote the 3 months left as £90 if you paid 'in full' , but if the list price were (say) £43, then if you were to pay those 3 months at full price then that's £129 which is better ( but not by much ) than the 3x £20.5 ETC + £65 router charge £126.50.
TBH , including the router charge isn't really relevant as an ETC, as the way they 'offer' the router is as a deferred payment , they in effect say the router is something like £129, but you don't have to pay for it for a year , at the end of the year ( if you remain a customer ) they then waive the £129 , but if you quit before the minimum term expires , they say the money for the router ( that they could have charged at the start of the deal) becomes due ( or £65 of it does) , so arguably it's not an early termination charge, it's the deferred cost of the router from when the service started , because you didn't fulfil the minimum term , that cost becomes due, if you stayed a customer long enough they would have waived the cost.
The router was never worth £129 or even £65 but the fact is those were the terms on which they supplied the router, you didn't have to take the router on these terms but obviously most people would , assuming they thought they would be a customer for the minimum term
If you are moving out (possibly not your choice) , and you take BT at your new address (as a home mover ) you wouldn't have ETC's anyway, but presumably you don't want to use BT at your new address.
I would think no one would begrudge you trying to minimise what you have to pay for breaking the contract with BT, but these costs are not hidden, so there is no reason why BT wouldn't apply them ( if you didn't like the terms you shouldn't have used BT in the first place ) but you have various ways of avoiding the ETC, using the person who is willing to use the service (and pay), as you first post implied you had someone willing to do this, for the remainder of the minimum term, or use BT at whatever address you are moving to0 -
The comment about someone else paying was really about BT having a term in the contract that is very one sided, to me it looks more than a little unfair.
I understand what you are saying, yes, the price I am paying is with a discount, I wouldn't take the contract at the normal price. The router is locked to BT, its not like a mobile you can use with another network, so I believe it is an integral part of the contract and an integral part of the ETC's.
I would argue that it is not obvious about the £65 charge, the home hub is automatically added to your basket with your chosen package, no choice to remove it, on the order page it says 'BT home hub included' and it then lists 'one off charges', it says 'BT smart hub' £0.00, there is nothing about a deferred £65 charge, there is even a little question mark next to that but all it says is the benefits of the smart hub, would it not be reasonable to have info at that point stating its a deferred payment?
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The comment about someone else paying was really about BT having a term in the contract that is very one sided, to me it looks more than a little unfair.
I suspect you feel that only because you're looking for reasons to get out of the contract. I think your odds of getting a judge to agree with you, on that term, are next to zero.0 -
Had I not been looking to leave I probably wouldn't have read it or thought about the implications and fairness of it.I suspect you feel that only because you're looking for reasons to get out of the contract. I think your odds of getting a judge to agree with you, on that term, are next to zero.0 -
"83. We also acknowledge there is an alternative basis on which, in our view, a likely fair ETC may be recovered. Instead of recovering an ETC on the basis above, a CP may fairly seek to recover its unrecouped expenditure on the early terminated contract. This may include its unrecouped customer acquisition or equipment subsidy costs. But, we do not consider such recoverable costs may exceed the fair ETC that may be recovered on the first basis described above."
I believe this guidance demonstrates that BT can recoup its costs for the equipment but it must not be more than the ETC, and the ETC will always be less than the cost you would pay for the full contract, as laid out in the guidance. If the ETC is £20.50/month and the full price is £25/month(£30 - VAT), then they could potentially charge £4.49(25 - 20.50) for each month left for the router, that would be fair as the combined cost would be no more than the cost of the original contract.
Even in 2010 OFCOM said:
Communications providers have obligations to meet under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 (the Regulations). Ofcom's interpretation of the Regulations is that consumers who end contracts early should never have to pay more than the payments left under the contract, in fact they should often pay less,to reflect the costs providers save because the contract ends early.
I would have expected OFCOM to see straight through BT's 'deferred £65' router fudge and demand they change their terms.
Even in 2008 OFCOM said :
charges are to never be more than remaining payments due under contract
That's pretty clear!!0
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