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UKCPM, Gladstones. Not displaying a valid permit. Should I ignore until LBC?

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Jones578
Jones578 Posts: 32 Forumite
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I received a letter from Gladstones Solicitors, on behalf of UK Car Park Management (UKCPM), regarding a windscreen PCN that was issued to a hired car that I was driving at that time.
The letter is dated 23/11/2018, but I only received it on last Thursday (29/11/2018, i.e., about a week after that date).

I have uploaded the Gladstones' letter here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ck3uqmd128bi0ru/AAAwxneEoigFLcxDjkKMmr_ta?dl=0 (2018.11.23 Gladstones Solicitors.jpg)
Not sure if they are useful, but I have also uploaded the previous correspondence onto a sub folder for your information.

I have read the newbies post and a few of the recent UKCPM / Gladstones post on this page.
I believe I should ignore the Gladstones letter for now until they send a LBC to me. Is it correct?

A bit of the background...

The PCN was issued to me when we were visiting a family friend for dinner.
We parked the car at a visitor bay, with a visitor parking permit that was provided by our friend.
We were certainly surprised when we saw the PCN was stick on the windscreen after dinner.
The visitor permit that we have got allowed us to park on a 'P' bay. Our family friend has never used it before and they thought it was referring to the big blue 'P' on the sign post, which was just opposite to the parking space. However, the 'P' appears to be referring to the white wordings that are written on the ground next to the individual parking space, while the space that we used was actually a 'SO', hence they ticketed us for not displaying a 'valid' permit.

Since the car was a hired car, I wrote a letter to UKCPM within 21 days that admit I was the driver and all further correspondence should be directed to me.
Approx. 6~7 weeks later, UKCPM responded to me but (obviously) did not answer any of the specific points that were raised in my letter.
I ignored it and I also ignored the subsequent DRP letters that were sent to me afterwards.

I believe I should also ignore the Gladstones letter that was sent to me last week, unless they send a LBC to me. Would it be the right thing to do?

Any advice would be much appreciated!
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  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,655 Forumite
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    Jones578 wrote: »
    I believe I should also ignore the Gladstones letter that was sent to me last week, unless they send a LBC to me. Would it be the right thing to do?
    That's correct.
  • Jones578
    Jones578 Posts: 32 Forumite
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    KeithP wrote: »
    That's correct.

    Thanks Keith!
    I will come back here for advice if I receive a LBC in the future!
  • Jones578
    Jones578 Posts: 32 Forumite
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    edited 24 July 2019 at 6:56PM
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    Hi all, I have just received a Court Claim letter in post. The letter was dated 17/7/2019.
    I have uploaded the letter here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ovjmpzk4pbwz7y6/2019.07.17%20County%20Court%20Claim%20Form.pdf?dl=0

    Before this, I have received 2 LBC letters from Gladstones on 9/5/2019 and 17/6/2019, which I have both ignored (I only realised I should not ignore these letters when I just checked the newbie post again...)

    Am I right in thinking that I should go ahead to fill in the Acknowledgment of Service form on page 3, and tick the Option 1 'I intend to defend all of this claim'?
    What's the difference between Option 1 and Option 3 'I intend to contest jurisdiction'?

    Then I would have up to 28 days from the letter date (i.e., 14/8) to submit my defence?

    Is there a template available that may suit my case?

    I am planning to make a big credit application (mortgage) in a few months time, am I right in thinking this court claim would not affect my credit application if I lose and pay up right away?

    I have uploaded all correspondence (including the LBCs that I ignored) onto the Dropbox folder that I mentioned in the OP: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ck3uqmd128bi0ru/AAAwxneEoigFLcxDjkKMmr_ta?dl=0

    I have never dealt with a court claim before and it happens to arrive during an extra busy period at work...
    It would be very appreciated if someone can help pointing me to the right direction.
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,655 Forumite
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    edited 21 July 2019 at 12:59AM
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    Do not fill in any of the forms they have supplied.
    I am planning to make a big credit application (mortgage) in a few months time, am I right in thinking this court claim would not affect my credit application if I lose and pay up right away?
    You are right in thinking that.


    With a Claim Issue Date of 17th July, you have until Monday 5th August to do the Acknowledgement of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox file linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread. About ten minutes work - no thinking required.

    Having done the AoS, you have until 4pm on Monday 19th August 2019 to file your Defence.

    That's over four weeks away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:
      Print your Defence.
    1. Sign it and date it.
    2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    5. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    6. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to keep you under pressure.
    7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
  • Jones578
    Jones578 Posts: 32 Forumite
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    KeithP wrote: »
    Do not fill in any of the forms they have supplied.


    You are right in thinking that.


    With a Claim Issue Date of 17th July, you have until Monday 5th August to do the Acknowledgement of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox file linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread. About ten minutes work - no thinking required.

    Having done the AoS, you have until 4pm on Monday 19th August 2019 to file your Defence.

    That's over four weeks away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:
      Print your Defence.
    1. Sign it and date it.
    2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    5. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    6. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to keep you under pressure.
    7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.

    Many thanks for your quick reply! I have followed the Dropbox MCOL guide and just submitted the AoS.

    It's getting a bit late now... I will do more research and see if I can find a template defence letter similar to my situation.

    It's very appreciated! :beer:
  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
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    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Jones578
    Jones578 Posts: 32 Forumite
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    edited 9 August 2019 at 9:29PM
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    Hi all, this is my first draft of Defence so far, which was a copy and paste from a few preivous thread.
    Any advice is welcome.



    In The County Court
    Claim No: xxx
    Between
    UK Car Park Management Limited (Claimant)

    -and-

    xxx (Defendant)

    ____________
    DEFENCE
    ____________
    1. The Defendant was the vehicle's hirer and keeper of vehicle registration number XXXXXXX on the material date. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

    2. The facts of the matter are that the Defendant is a visitor of the resident of the Edition Development, and has displayed a visitor parking permit at the time of the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) was issued. The signage that was present next to the alleged parking space, which forms the basis of the current claim, displayed a clear ‘P’ and would, therefore, suggest the space was allocated for the ‘P’ parking permit, which the Defendant clearly displayed in the vehicle. The ‘SO’ sign that Claimant referred in their letter to the resident was printed on the ground and could not be easily identified once a vehicle was parked. Given this lack of clarity regarding how or where a visitor with a parking permit is, or is not, allowed to park in this car park, no contract can be construed from the Claimant's signage, under the contra proferentem principle.

    3. Accordingly, it is denied that the Defendant breached any of the Claimant's purported contractual terms, whether express, implied, or by conduct.

    4. The Particulars of Claim (PoC) do not specify what are the terms breached by the driver of the vehicle. As such, the Claim fails to meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5 as there is nothing which specifies what the terms were and how they were breached.

    5. The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation.

    6. The Defendant has the reasonable belief that the Claimant has not incurred £60 costs to pursue an alleged £100 debt. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, in Schedule 4, Para 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper, in this case £100.

    7. The claim includes interest charge but does not include dates used for calculation. As such, this is in breach of Civil Procedure Rule 16.4 (2)

    8. In summary, the Claimant's particulars disclose no legal basis for the sum claimed, and the Court is invited to dismiss the claim in its entirety.
    Statement of Truth:

    I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true.

    Name
    Signature
    Date
  • Quentin
    Quentin Posts: 40,405 Forumite
    edited 9 August 2019 at 8:50PM
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    You need to edit your post.

    You have given unique information that will allow the PPC to identify you

    The ppcs monitor this forum and can use posts in your thread against you in Court

    If you have also used your real name as your forum name then get mse to change it to something anonymous
  • Jones578
    Jones578 Posts: 32 Forumite
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    Quentin wrote: »
    You need to edit your post.

    You have given unique information that will allow the PPC to identify you

    The ppcs monitor this forum and can use posts in your thread against you in Court

    If you have also used your real name as your forum name then get mse to change it to something anonymous

    Oops, thanks for spotting it! I mistakenly left the car reg there :eek:
    My forum name is not relevant to my real name, so it should not be a problem.

    Many thanks!!
  • Le_Kirk
    Le_Kirk Posts: 22,322 Forumite
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    You might want to search the forum for a thread about Abuse of Process posted by beamerguy and commented on in post # 14 of that thread by Coupon-mad, which adds a significant portion of defence points based on cases being struck out in IOW and Southampton because claimants had added the mythical £60 costs.
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