MSE News: Junior Isas: should parents choose cash or shares?

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This is the discussion thread for the following MSE News Story:

"Parents can choose cash or gamble on the markets with an equity Isa. John Chapman, TQ Invest MD, explains the options ..."
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  • Pinner_Ram
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    Nothing against TQ Invest, but surely the most important step for all parents (if they are financially able to do so) is to maximise their own use of tax free shelters (ISA, SIPP, maybe VCT) in their own name before they take out a junior ISA for the kids?

    PR
  • jamesd
    jamesd Posts: 26,103 Forumite
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    Any chance of MSE not condemning investing up front by using a highly negatively emotionally loaded word like gambling in "to gamble on the markets"? If MSE does want to use a word with negative emotional loading "speculating" would be a somewhat better choice because:

    investing: the long term trend is profits with variation in capital values along the way for investors.
    gambling: the long and short term trend is losing for gamblers.
    speculating: results are mixed but it implies higher risk than necessarily involved in investing.

    If MSE doesn't want to use a word with negative emotional loading "investing" is an alternative.

    Anyone comparing investments with savings should note that investment returns are quoted after the costs have been deducted, just as savings account interest rates are. The difference is that the savings costs aren't disclosed and that you can manage the costs to some extent by choosing where you put the investment money.

    Be sure to use an appropriate view of risk for the child, not for yourself. You may be cautious but that's not an appropriate approach for a newborn with at least 18 years to go before they can get the money.

    One of the sad facts of finance is that poorer parents are more inclined to use cautious approaches that make them and their children worse off long term. Do try to avoid this if you can when making long term choices for what to do with the money of the children. With your day to day finances you may have no choice but to be cautious.

    Pinner Ram, it often will be best to use the allowances of the parents but the JISA has the possible advantage that it is owned by the child. This means that it is protected from bankruptcy of one or more parents. I haven't investigated its effect on means-tested benefits but assume that the child's name offers an advantage there as well. This isn't free because from the age of 16 he child can take control of the account if they wish, though not take money out until 18. Those ages may be contrary to the wishes of the parents for the money.
  • jimjames
    jimjames Posts: 17,624 Forumite
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    Maybe your own ISAs before Junior but I really can't see why you'd save into a SIPP rather than Junior ISA as they are totally different things.

    If you need funds to help kids at uni or buying first house/car then money put into a SIPP is not going to help at all.

    Back to the original question I think it should be S&S all the way but somehow doubt that many people will do that. All the headlines you see are about the risks of the stock market, none show how compounded returns over 18 years have done compared to cash as it isn't a news story.
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
  • Pinner_Ram
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    jamesd wrote: »


    Pinner Ram, it often will be best to use the allowances of the parents but the JISA has the possible advantage that it is owned by the child. This means that it is protected from bankruptcy of one or more parents. I haven't investigated its effect on means-tested benefits but assume that the child's name offers an advantage there as well. This isn't free because from the age of 16 he child can take control of the account if they wish, though not take money out until 18. Those ages may be contrary to the wishes of the parents for the money.


    James - you are (I believe) factually correct but you make a lot of assumptions about my knowledge of the subject (your comments could have been phrased differently!).

    And, IMO, I feel it highly unlikely that bankruptcy and means testing will be relevant.

    PR
  • Pinner_Ram
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    jimjames wrote: »
    a SIPP [and a] Junior ISA ...... are totally different things.


    I quite agree, they are different things.

    My point was that if a parent has spare cash they'd (usually) be better off "using their various tax shelters" (a SIPP is one of those I believe?) rather than investing in an ISA for a child.

    PR
  • dunstonh
    dunstonh Posts: 116,384 Forumite
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    ny chance of MSE not condemning investing up front by using a highly negatively emotionally loaded word like gambling in "to gamble on the markets"?

    Many would consider that the gamble is actually going with the cash option as inflation risk is likely to be more damaging than investment risk.

    Do you also notice how the options MSE gives are just two ends of the scale and nothing in between?
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • jamesd
    jamesd Posts: 26,103 Forumite
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    MSE Guy, the link in the post is wrong. The question mark is missing from the link and needs to be present.

    Pinner Ram, I wasn't trying to cover your personal situation but some considerations that may apply to the broader audience of those considering their decision. Those will largely be new parents, mostly young and with some fair possibility of unemployment during the next eighteen years.

    Dunstonh, I think that John did a quite good job given his space constraints.
  • alan2012_2
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    surely a low risk market investment held for the long term will produce a better return than the very poor current cash isa rates
  • Pinner_Ram
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    jamesd wrote: »

    Those will largely be new parents, mostly young and with some fair possibility of unemployment during the next eighteen years.

    More assumptions, and this cohort you describe will be unlikely to be able to use their own allowances never mind fund a junior isa!

    PR
  • jimjames
    jimjames Posts: 17,624 Forumite
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    jamesd wrote: »
    Dunstonh, I think that John did a quite good job given his space constraints.

    Its just a shame that the text linking to it is rather biased as you pointed out!
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
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