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Friend living as tenant with no contract

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  • redandwhitestripes
    redandwhitestripes Posts: 43 Forumite
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    Appreciate the replies.

    I had taken a back seat with the house as I live in London, my sister in Birmingham, so it is only now when she needs the place back that I am getting involved - I can be the bad cop so to speak.

    Certainly the lesson about mixing friends and business is clear.

    At least it seems if talking to her doesnt work , then a S21 will get things in motion
  • theartfullodger
    theartfullodger Posts: 14,603 Forumite
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    No, not s21. That would be you stating they have an AST, many more rights than they currently have.

    Use a SPECIALIST solicitor.
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
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    Do not serve a S21.

    I refer you to post 3 above:
    might be an idea to quote here exactly what the email said - any suggestion in the email that the friend is a tenant or has a tenancy could be used by her to pursuade a court she has tenancy rights........
    A S21 would have the same effect.
  • redandwhitestripes
    redandwhitestripes Posts: 43 Forumite
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    ah ok , sorry misunderstood s21

    Will go back to the Excluded Occupier , and then solicitor

    Hopefully it wont come to it, but thanks for the advice.
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
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    redandwhitestripes wrote: »
    Thanks all so far for the replies.
    Will google ' excluded occupier '
    Apologies. This is probably the wrong term and does not apply here.

    Though the essence of the advice still stands.

    The critical distinction is between a tenancy, and a licence. A licence is a permission to occupy and can apply to, for example, your mate who stays the night, a relative who spends the week with you, or a friend who you let live in your house for a period of time.

    A tenancy is formed if rent is paid in return for the right to occupy. That is why several of us have stressed whether or not rent (in some form or other) has been paid.

    Once a tenancy is formed, it then becmes a matter of whether it's an Assured Tenancy (eg AST) or whether the occupant is an 'Excluded Occupier (eg a lodger) who is excluded from most of the rights of an AST tenant.

    In your case, the ideal situation would be for the friend to be a 'licencee' who you can chuck out as easily as your mate who stayed the night, simply by revoking the licence ("Please leave").

    This link from the Legal Action Group may help:

    http://www.lag.org.uk/media/205276/housig_law_handbooks_chapter_1.pdf
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    G_M wrote: »
    A tenancy is formed if rent is paid in return for the right to occupy. That is why several of us have stressed whether or not rent (in some form or other) has been paid.
    The "friend" was maintaining the property.
  • Out,_Vile_Jelly
    Out,_Vile_Jelly Posts: 4,842 Forumite
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    Tell "the friend" you're happy to have helped them through a rough patch by providing a free house for five years, offer a reasonable timescale for them to leave, and say you will provide a good reference if required. Be prepared for the friendship to be over.

    You'll need to clarify your legal options, but you can do this behind the scenes without going in all guns blazing.
    They are an EYESORES!!!!
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
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    AdrianC wrote: »
    The "friend" was maintaining the property.
    though it's still unclear exactly what 'maintaining' means in this case.

    OP said:
    The friend has paid all bills, inc council tax, utilities.
    No work has been done on the house in those 5 years , just general upkeep.
    which is no more than covering their own costs, not the OP's costs (though Council Tax might be ambiguous).
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    CT and utilities would be the tenant's responsibility in any case, of course.

    "General upkeep" - now there's a catch-all term... If that's stuff that a normal tenant would be pointing the LL to (which I suspect it is), then that'd almost certainly count as "rent" in kind.
  • sevenhills
    sevenhills Posts: 5,887 Forumite
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    theartfullodger wrote: »
    But don't actually do that: She could pay 1 month's rent then would have much stronger tenant rights and be harder to evict.

    Since the friend is not a tenant now, put the rent at £5,000 per week?
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