Friend living as tenant with no contract

redandwhitestripes

Am writing this for my sister ( yes really!!) as we want to get some advice on a situation.

My sister owns a house- property A
( I am on the deeds as well although I didn't put any money in - it was done years ago to help her get a mortgage).
There is no mortgage left on this.

She lives with a partner in property B - which they have a 50/50 share - again no mortgage.

Property A is currently occupied by a friend of my sister - she has been there for about 5 years, originally as a favour.
The friend doesn't pay rent, but pays bills and keeps the house tidy - also, and importantly, there is no official contract.
Stupid I know but things just happened..

Unfortunately now, my sister and partner are splitting up and will eventually sell property B and my sister will want to move back into property A.

She has explained the situation to the friend, who having had years of enjoying rentfree living, is now delaying things and being a bit stubborn.

My sister has been good and given 2 months notice orally, and by email , but am wondering where this stands legally.

Can we use a Section 8 or 21 notice as there is no deposit or contract?
I'm not sure if this is a 'tenant at will' situation.

She is going down the diplomatic route first, but just in case things get sticky.....would be good to know where we stand.

theartfullodger

The "pay bills and keep tidy" may count as "rent" (rent doesn't have to be money)... EXACTLY what bills do they pay - and do the handle maintenance, repairs?

In sister's shoes I would use a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant to handle this. Think she/solicitor needs to serve a valid "Notice to quit". Her email probably isn't this.

It's possible the courts aren't needed, but sounds like this occupant may argue they should be & sister ends up in court... (illegal eviction is both a civil {£££} and criminal {jail..) offence for which landlords can & have gone to jail...)

See also...
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/downloads_and_tools/tenancy_checker

G_M

redandwhitestripes wrote: »

Am writing this for my sister ( yes really!!) as we want to get some advice on a situation.

My sister owns a house- property A
( I am on the deeds as well although I didn't put any money in - it was done years ago to help her get a mortgage).
There is no mortgage left on this.
Your sister does not own property A. You and your sister jointly own A.

She lives with a partner in property B - which they have a 50/50 share - again no mortgage.

Property A is currently occupied by a friend of my sister - she has been there for about 5 years, originally as a favour.
The friend doesn't pay rent, but pays bills and keeps the house tidy - also, and importantly, there is no official contract.
Stupid I know but things just happened..
So friend is living there under licence. As an 'Excluded Occupier' (which means excluded from the protection of normal tenancy law).

But are you 100% sure no rent is paid? Rent is not just cash given to the owner(s). It can include
* payment made to mortgage lender
* services provided
* payment in kind
* money invested in the property eg paying for a new extension, new kitchen etc

Unfortunately now, my sister and partner are splitting up and will eventually sell property B and my sister will want to move back into property A.
how are relations between sister and her friend?

She has explained the situation to the friend, who having had years of enjoying rentfree living, is now delaying things and being a bit stubborn.
Oh-oh!

My sister has been good and given 2 months notice orally, and by email , but am wondering where this stands legally.
email's not bad. A formal letter better, bth legally and in terms of it's psychological impact.

Can we use a Section 8 or 21 notice as there is no deposit or contract?
I'm not sure if this is a 'tenant at will' situation.
I don't think a S21 is needed. But please check and answer the rent question above. This could be crucial.

She is going down the diplomatic route first, but just in case things get sticky.....would be good to know where we stand.

If friend is an Excluded Occupier, you and sister (yes - you are joint owners!) can withdraw the licence to occupy. The email /letter does this.

You can then go in and change the locks. Do you have keys?

edt: might be an idea to quote here exactly what the email said - any suggestion in the email that the friend is a tenant or has a tenancy could be used by her to pursuade a court she has tenancy rights........

saajan_12

redandwhitestripes wrote: »

Property A is currently occupied by a friend of my sister - she has been there for about 5 years, originally as a favour.
The friend doesn't pay rent, but pays bills and keeps the house tidy - also, and importantly, there is no official contract.

An 'official' (do you mean written?) contract isn't so important, as the actions indicate what was agreed. The key is what exactly the friend pays in bills and does in 'keeping the house tidy'.

A: If the bills are things an LL is responsible for (e.g. ground rent, mortgage, repair bills) or if the 'keeping tidy' are LL repairs / capital improvements / necessary renovation to the structure then these could be payment in kind for rent.
=> Then friend is a tenant. The LLs (joint owners so you and sister) should serve Section 21 and obtain a posession order through the court.

B: IF bills are just for friend's usage e.g. utilities, broadband, other services and 'keeping tidy' is just for friend's enjoyment of the place and small scale decoration / maintenance, then there is NO RENT being paid.
=> Then friend is an excluded occupier. The LLs should give reasonable notice (min 7 days, I'd suggest 1 month) to vacate. Ideally in writing but not necessary.

xylophone

My sister owns a house- property A
( I am on the deeds as well

Then you too are a legal owner of the property?

Are you saying that you are not a beneficial owner because there is a Deed of Trust?

redandwhitestripes

Thanks all so far for the replies.
Will google ' excluded occupier '

Just to clarify - I guess i am a legal owner , I just dont see myself as that, as I have never lived in the house.
My name was on the mortgage originally as my sister wasn't working at the time but had savings to buy the house back then.

The friend has paid all bills, inc council tax, utilities.
No work has been done on the house in those 5 years , just general upkeep.

I think what is galling is that her son ( 30 yr old) stays there at weekends as well , having rented his own house out.

The friendship is ok at the moment , but you know how things can turn , especially when a freebie like this is being taken away

AdrianC

redandwhitestripes wrote: »

My sister owns a house- property A
( I am on the deeds as well although I didn't put any money in - it was done years ago to help her get a mortgage).

So you BOTH own Property A. Tenants in Common, or Joint Tenants? If TiC, what's your share?

Property A is currently occupied by a friend of my sister - she has been there for about 5 years, originally as a favour.
The friend doesn't pay rent, but pays bills and keeps the house tidy - also, and importantly, there is no official contract.
Stupid I know but things just happened..

You're as much to blame as your sister, since you are much this person's landlord as your sister is.

Unfortunately now, my sister and partner are splitting up and will eventually sell property B and my sister will want to move back into property A.

Seems fair, and no real friend would have any issue with that.

She has explained the situation to the friend, who having had years of enjoying rentfree living, is now delaying things and being a bit stubborn.

Some friend.

My sister has been good and given 2 months notice orally, and by email , but am wondering where this stands legally.

So you (jointly) have not given any legally valid notice yet, merely asked nicely.

Can we use a Section 8 or 21 notice as there is no deposit or contract?

The tenant has a standard Assured Shorthold Tenancy. The fact no rent is paid makes little difference. You (jointly) need to issue an s21 notice, officially. If the tenant still does not move out, then you start down the route of gaining possession through a court. If there was a deposit, then it'd need to have been protected - but there's no need for a deposit.

Forget s8 - the tenant's not breached any of the grounds.

Great example of why friendship and substantial amounts of money should not be mixed...

xylophone

I guess i am a legal owner

I would sort this out with a solicitor and take advice about removing the "friend" from the property as well.

theartfullodger

Never ever rent to friends or family. Never allow zero or very low rent to occupants. If you wish to support someone, get them to rent elsewhere, boring commercial tenancy, and then give them the rent monthly: (You've been giving them the rent monthly, allowing them to live there rent free..)

If you've bought (solely or jointly) any property since the stamp-duty change you should have paid 3% stamp duty.

aneary

Tell the 'friend' that if she doesn't move out then rent will need to be charged. Market rate + 10% to account for the five years free rent she may want to move then.

theartfullodger

aneary wrote: »

Tell the 'friend' that if she doesn't move out then rent will need to be charged. Market rate + 10% to account for the five years free rent she may want to move then.

But don't actually do that: She could pay 1 month's rent then would have much stronger tenant rights and be harder to evict.