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Unemployed Graduate 100k dilemma; share your life experience

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  • AimHigh
    AimHigh Posts: 135 Forumite
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    Being young myself, I can't offer you any advice from my own life experience but these are merely some observations:

    1) Making 100k at your age/in the way that you have is commendable, you are certainly in a vast minority so should be proud of yourself.
    2) The biggest thing holding you back is yourself. It sounds like you're overthinking things too much i.e., 'I would like to do x but...'. You should just take the plunge. I'm not saying be reckless as such, just pick something and commit to it. I regret not having much life experience. I chose to do a small bit of travelling earlier this year and it was the best decision I ever made. You don't need to break the bank to do it and the older you will be glad you did. Better to experience it now before your responsibilities get in the way in my opinion..
    3) I feel your pain when it comes to having ambition/drive and not knowing where to place it. The best I can offer with relation to your career is perhaps something in Automation/AI/Machine learning etc. This is the future imo.

    All the best, I hope things work out.

    AH
  • Apodemus
    Apodemus Posts: 3,384 Forumite
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    Lock most of your money away before you go travelling, otherwise the temptation will be to increase your comfort level to a point where you don't get the same benefit of the experiences and challenges.

    However, if moving to a job in the city was too challenging, then I'm not sure you are ready to take the plunge and head off on your own to travel the world. I would also question whether you are mentally equipped for overseas voluntary work or disaster recovery, it's a tough gig and not for the faint-hearted.
  • atush
    atush Posts: 18,731 Forumite
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    jpuphill wrote: »
    Agreed, my original housing search was 45min radius of job and couldn't get anything under 900pcm for a room that wasn't in a total dive. Given 8/9am to 6pm working hours + hour commute in peak times on top to and from something further out would make me go insane, not to mention unpaid overtime, work mobile when at home, etc. which seems standard with grad positions. Not to mention travel card as added expense. I have accepted that I just wouldn't cope with it, I tried hard and went down a lot try to get used to the tube crush and traffic but it is a no go for now until I am more resilient.


    My son lives in south Lonon for 600 a month in a house share (nice, not a dive). You c an do it cheaper.
  • justme111
    justme111 Posts: 3,508 Forumite
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    Apodemus wrote: »
    Lock most of your money away before you go travelling, otherwise the temptation will be to increase your comfort level to a point where you don't get the same benefit of the experiences and challenges.

    However, if moving to a job in the city was too challenging, then I'm not sure you are ready to take the plunge and head off on your own to travel the world. I would also question whether you are mentally equipped for overseas voluntary work or disaster recovery, it's a tough gig and not for the faint-hearted.

    I see where you coming from. Usually looking into someone else's world and helping them is precisely what is needed to reassess our life and find the answers.
    I doubt it is going to be as bad as an unlucky houseshare. I had pretty eventful life but some of the student houseshare times still rate amongst 2 of my worst emotional experiences.
    The word "dilemma" comes from Greek where "di" means two and "lemma" means premise. Refers usually to difficult choice between two undesirable options.
    Often people seem to use this word mistakenly where "quandary" would fit better.
  • justme111
    justme111 Posts: 3,508 Forumite
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    atush wrote: »
    My son lives in south Lonon for 600 a month in a house share (nice, not a dive). You c an do it cheaper.

    Yes indeed one can , I know some examples as well. But it is a pot luck and nerve wracking experience to try to find those amongst all the sharks and fraudsters and dives. I know a few cases where rental issues caused some to drop out of uni or having mental health issues and those people were not particularly vulnerable from the start.
    The word "dilemma" comes from Greek where "di" means two and "lemma" means premise. Refers usually to difficult choice between two undesirable options.
    Often people seem to use this word mistakenly where "quandary" would fit better.
  • jpuphill
    jpuphill Posts: 28 Forumite
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    Just to put the London issue to bed as it seems that lots of people have commented about this, if it wasn't a case of losing the fight to pay 50% of my salary to live in a room then I would have taken the job. Maybe I wasn't sufficiently active in the hunt but when I was looking I had a deadline and it was the busiest time of year, I was looking from 8am-8pm every day for 3 weeks, I spent 4 hours each day on library computers looking at adverts as they were posted online, I did't know anyone who lives there, prices ranged from 450-1200pcm for a room, the lower the price the more interest, my budget was 900 max, I was contacting people as soon as adverts went up, viewing some places hours after they were posted, I went to house interviews where I was queuing with other potential flatmates, the biggest hindrance was my age as thirty somethings want people their own age and student shares don't want professionals as it means council tax exemption is lost, one advertiser who posted a room for 500pcm told me when I went to view it that he had to take the advert down as he had 40 replies within the hour of it going live, I was staying in backpacker hostels as by the end of the day I would end up in completely different districts, camden, greenwich, stratford etc. as well as having many tourist backpackers, these hostels were also populated by working professionals living out of a suitcase, as was getting prepared and checking out in the morning so were people in shirt and tie with oyster card and laptop under arm, it was exhausting and when the deadline rolled around I had to say that I had been unable to relocate
  • stardust09
    stardust09 Posts: 264 Forumite
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    jpuphill wrote: »
    As for travel, what holds me back is myself. I'm not excited by the prospect of drifting around, I figure that's the 'plan b' if I drop out of society and live off savings. I want to give society and work a good effort first if that makes sense, I'm driven for something I just don't know how to apply that without a passion.

    Travelling is great for people with low confidence as it pushes you to develop your social skills. But 'drifting around' isn't the best travel plan. Why not take advantage of working visas (Australia, New Zealand, Canada, if you want to stick to countries where English is the native language) and try to either do paid jobs or voluntary work in areas that interest you. Have a defined plan if that helps but also be willing to be flexible if life offers you a great opportunity along the way!

    I am sad that you see travelling as a plan B and something you only do if you drop out of society. Society is everywhere in every country and other cultures can shape you as a person so much more than you'd believe. People who've travelled are often far more rounded people with a far-reaching view on the world than those who haven't, and also much more confident and adaptable in workplaces.

    So many other graduates who had had fantastic opportunities travelling the world would probably disagree that they were drop outs too! One friend met her future husband when they were both travelling, they married and then both moved to Australia where he's set up a very successful coffee shop chain selling coffee from his native country. You never know where life will take you. You might also need to apply a trial and error approach to jobs because it's hard to have passion before the job. You have to try the jobs to find your passion sometimes.

    Travel first and work later - more people regret not travelling than taking the opportunity when they were young and free!

    Finally, you do sound really depressed as I've noticed that your posts heavily focus on all the reasons why something won't or hasn't worked out. I appreciate the graduate job hunting process is tough and demoralising and I'm glad you're being inspired by some good ideas from people here - e.g. refocusing your CV. How about investing in seeing a careers coach or something similar?

    I also wonder if you've read The Happiness Trap by Russ Harris or ever done Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. This is an evidence-based therapy that is becoming more mainstream alongside CBT. There's a book and also a website here:https://thehappinesstrap.com/. I think you could find it quite useful.

    Good luck!
  • jpuphill
    jpuphill Posts: 28 Forumite
    edited 2 August 2017 at 5:53PM
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    Thank you, for those saying travel is a good move, I am aware that for some people it is beneficial but it is a gamble, it is a risk. I also have an aversion to it which I will detail below if anyone is interested. I've been in a pressure cooker since age 14/15 in the education system, first GCSE coursework was at this age and final GCSEs were at 16, it was clear from the onset that these were very important and meant a lot in the future, then it was the same attitude but increased intensity through A-levels, and due to the nature of my degree I had coursework from day one with a final year that saw 9-6pm mon to fri minimum hours just to get my lab work, projects, coursework in, then final exams at the end of it, and then to come out at the end of it into an international jobs market. Nowadays there seems to be more of a dialogue that this is unhealthy and such pressure in school is not great, maybe if you shout loud enough some kids will hear you when you say 'exams aren't everything' but at my comprehensive nobody ever said this, the school ofsted depends on achievement so the atmosphere is to achieve.

    Broadly speaking, getting a good job after graduation requires fighting for summer placements in the summer holidays after first and second years. I made the mistake of doing my own thing and making some money, which did involve travelling at some leisure to source items. The idea of travelling now would compound that mistake, I can only view it as taking it easy which means I am losing time and opportunities. I am a product of my environment, I am driven, the pressure stays on to push you, I can't just switch it off, of course this is unhealthy, of course this isn't good for me, of course it isn't enjoyable. Whilst the drive to succeed is baked in I am fully aware that rationally thinking, taking the advice of an older self with wisdom, I should act to ease it and taking time off to travel is even more important, that carrying on would be shooting myself in the foot before I start the marathon race, but this neglects everything I have just described.

    Currently, my H2B ISA is maxed, my 2017/18 ISA has 4k outstanding in case I want to open a LISA:

    Here is my thinking, I feel like I should be exposed to the UK property market as I envisage spending the majority of my life here. If home ownership continues to fall at any level, and house building remains far below demand whilst population increases it is a reasonable bet that house prices will rise modestly. This as earnings have fallen and debt has risen against the backdrop of higher rent and valuations. Just for example, using 5x earnings as metric for mortgage, ave house 250k, salary needed is 50k, currently if I achieve charted status through professional body and have 8+ years experience I might hope to have 40-50k depending on responsibility. So if house prices remained stagnant for the next 8 years and I have a deposit I could get a mortgage for average house. (This is assuming a lot, like interest rates remaining low etc. and ignoring a multitude of issues over Brexit and how future immigration may affect all aspects of job and housing markets)

    I have nothing to inherit and no family bank of mum and dad, but right now I have a sizeable chunk of capital I can put down. In an environment of record low interest rates, owning any property in an area that isn't in decline looks to be a good move. If I was employed I could get a mortgage or if I choose my area carefully, I can get a buy to let on something under 150k. This would likely be a long term hold, not a short bet to gain on it's value rise.

    Some people have said yes and no regarding investing in a house in my circumstances. I understand the risks of the investment (unexpected costs, tenants, defaulting, interest rate rise etc.) but if people would care to comment on the particular pros/cons of this given my circumstances and the fact it would be the largest chuck of my portfolio (potentially anything up to 70%), significantly reducing potential liquidity

    Thank you all you lovely people, I appreciate every comment
  • justme111
    justme111 Posts: 3,508 Forumite
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    I do not think anybody advises travelling as in just bumbling along from country to country. People advise travelling with a particular mission- employer , job or volunteering position. It will not remove you from society as your summer lonely project did but on the contrary it will fit with employment pattern the same way summer placements fitted for others before.
    Re property - so you think about buying a house. Where? Just choosing the point on the map? Do you realise your future job will likely be not in the same place? What are you going to do then - rent it out? With all the hassle and risk and expenses? Who is going to give you unemployed a mortgage for it ? Or you going to look for something that you could buy outright? It will limit your market , some properties on a cheaper end have not experienced much increase in value I believe. Flats certainly have not and do not forget all management charges. Do you intend to hold a property long term or do you intend to sell it once you know where you will live? If the latter than do you realise that if you sell it in a couple of years all price increase can be swallowed by buying/selling charges and if prices are flat you will lose money on those ?
    The word "dilemma" comes from Greek where "di" means two and "lemma" means premise. Refers usually to difficult choice between two undesirable options.
    Often people seem to use this word mistakenly where "quandary" would fit better.
  • jpuphill
    jpuphill Posts: 28 Forumite
    edited 2 August 2017 at 6:43PM
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    I have never heard of someone going travelling to find an employer, unless you're talking about Norman Tebbit's father. Everything is online, so going in person to find an employer outside the EU and getting a work VISA is advantageous how? Especially as there has been significant rise in exploitation of travelling workers who depend on employer sign off for visas in countries like AUS / NZ

    Exposure to property would bring income
    if I choose my area carefully, I can get a buy to let on something under 150k. This would likely be a long term hold, not a short bet to gain on it's value rise.
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