We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.

This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.

IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including number plates, reference numbers and QR codes (which may reveal vehicle information when scanned).
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
The Forum now has a brand new text editor, adding a bunch of handy features to use when creating posts. Read more in our how-to guide

Lamorna Premier Park ANPR

A friend of mine popped round for a coffee today and I told him about my BWL claim. It turns out his son has just received a PCN from Premier Park related to Lamorna Cove car park (well known scammers). To my surprise they have given up aggressively harassing little old ladies and now have ANPR. Wow, they really are going up in the world!! He and his wife are in a bit of a state worrying about their son's 'ticket'. I want to help if I can.

1. His son has some very serious health problems, life changing stuff. These problems develop each year into new and baffling symptoms. He has seen all the experts in the country and had no end of tests etc, but still they are unable to properly diagnose his exact condition(s), he has many diagnosed ones as well as an undiagnosed one which causes him to lose all feeling in his legs without any warning. He literally collapses in the street when it happens, and has been into A&E several times with it. He went to Lamorna to drop off a friend who was walking along the coast path. (That's actually a point in itself, byelaws?!).

So he planned to drive in, drop them and leave. However as he stopped his car he felt an attack coming on and this developed into the worst episode he has had to date. He tried to get a signal to call someone but no signal at the location. He sat in his car for around 1hr to 1hr and a quarter (I can't remember exactly) when the symptoms began to subside and he regained feeling in (and use of) his legs, at which point he hurriedly started his car and left to get straight home in case it happened again. He has medical files coming out of his ears about these problems, and due to medicos not knowing exactly what the problem is, he basically isn't sure whether his entire body might just shut down when it happens. He really isn't in a good way and being only early twenties, life is pretty rotten for him and all his family due to these problems.

2. I asked my friend if his son is registered disabled (blue badge) and he says not as xxxxx "doesn't want to do that, but he is unquestionably physically disabled, he crawls up the stairs quite regularly at home and often needs help bathing in case something happens".

3. He got a Premier Park PCN through the post a week later. The wording is different to mine, but I can still find some failures re POFA.

So if anyone could suggest what advice I could give him, I would be very grateful. The advice I gave him (rightly or wrongly) at this point is DO NOT PAY, no matter what, if they are going after keeper than POFA restricts them to the NTK amount, so that's the worst outcome here (plus a bit for court costs). He is happy to do that, he doesn't want to give them a penny. However he really isn't good with stuff like this (registering on the forum would be a bit of a challenge, he is quite old and from farming background so doesn't do internet beyond a few apps on his phone). Therefore I will offer to write letters for him and even go to court if that was allowed. I know many people who have been scammed by Lamorna owner, an utter lowlife who has often broken the law, and he has a big reputation locally for his past behaviour to motorists, usually unsuspecting tourists.

I am unsure whether to advise him to appeal (I have never done an appeal). I just read the Newbies thread relating to this, and it doesn't say when the appeal must be done by. I think it's 28 days IIRC? If so, he is over that by a few days now so it's probably too late.

Biggest issue I am not sure about is whether he should defend as driver or keeper. I know the usual advice is to defend as keeper for various reasons, POFA mainly and the limitation of sum recoverable. However, since I think he has SUCH a strong argument regarding the actual circumstances/EA2010 etc, I wonder if he should actually admit driving in order to write and argue (or do so in court later) the powerful mitigating circumstances. Does anyone have a view on this please?

His family have had two terrible tragedies in the past year on top of his son's pretty horrific medical problems (years of it now), so I really want to help them with this extra stress they really don't need. But I obviously don't want to give the wrong advice. The main questions are: A) Should they appeal or is it too late? B) Should they stick to defending as keeper or admit driving and tell the story of what happened?

Thanks for any comments, if anyone would be so kind :)

P.S. The 2019 Google Earth images show signs which still mention "Penalty" and "Clamp removal fee".
Combatting the pandemic of BWLegal-19, one 'notice of discontinuance' at a time. :-)

Comments

  • MistyZ
    MistyZ Posts: 1,820 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 16 June 2019 at 7:37PM
    So it's too late to appeal to PP by the sounds of it, but do check out the date of the NTK to be doubly sure the 28 days have passed.

    Looks like Lamorna Cove was sold recently and whoever owns the restaurant will also own the car park:
    https://www.countrylife.co.uk/property/entire-cove-sale-including-stunning-cottage-thats-perhaps-photographed-house-cornwall-178785

    There may be other ideas but, for a start, a landowner complaint / strong request for cancellation is really important. So who bought that little lot I wonder? The tourist board will know I think.

    Lay it all on the line in a landowner complaint, do not hold back. For various reasons I would not identify the driver, though others may disagree. However an essential component of the complaint would be evidence of one occupant of the car's severe condition and the fact that, on this occasion, the need to stop the car in order to assess how they were and for them to have a period of rest absolutely overrode all other concerns.
  • Thanks Misty. Yes, definitely just missed out on the 28 day deadline.

    I am not sure if Lamorna cove sold or not, I have a feeling it didn't. Actually my friend will probably know as he is a local and knows just about everything going on around that area. Will see what I can find out. What is the normal way to find out who owns a piece of land? Maybe land registry?

    I am not sure about defending as keeper being the best idea, unless he tries that approach UNTIL a real court claim comes in (which could be years, but with current planned legislation I doubt it). The circumstances are only powerful if the complete story is told, i.e. the driver was completely alone in the car. Tricky one!
    Combatting the pandemic of BWLegal-19, one 'notice of discontinuance' at a time. :-)
  • Regarding the "not relevant land" idea, I have had it confirmed from various sources. The Falmouth Maritime Museum car park is not subject to any byelaws of the Falmouth Harbour Commission. I asked the commission direct. Hope that puts that to bed and might save other people some time finding out.

    "I can confirm that we have no byelaws that apply over Falmouth Maritime Museum and its grounds / parking area. We do not own or have any jurisdiction over this car park.

    Kind regards
    Vicki

    Vicki Spooner
    Environment and Quality Systems Manager
    Falmouth Harbour Commissioners
    44 Arwenack Street
    Falmouth
    TR11 3JQ
    Tel: 01326 213538
    eqsm@falmouthharbour.co.uk
    https://www.falmouthharbour.co.uk
    "
    Combatting the pandemic of BWLegal-19, one 'notice of discontinuance' at a time. :-)
  • MistyZ
    MistyZ Posts: 1,820 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Thanks Misty. Yes, definitely just missed out on the 28 day deadline.

    I am not sure if Lamorna cove sold or not, I have a feeling it didn't. Actually my friend will probably know as he is a local and knows just about everything going on around that area. Will see what I can find out. What is the normal way to find out who owns a piece of land? Maybe land registry?

    I am not sure about defending as keeper being the best idea, unless he tries that approach UNTIL a real court claim comes in (which could be years, but with current planned legislation I doubt it). The circumstances are only powerful if the complete story is told, i.e. the driver was completely alone in the car. Tricky one!

    I just had a niggling concern re. identifying driver in landowner complaint .... to do with road safety / potential to alienate other road users. Might have been over-thinking it.

    Can see what you're saying re. identifying driver for POPLA etc. though.

    I don't understand the significance of the bylaws .... bumping this up by replying to you, basically. And yes, land registry will show the landowner, there's a small fee, a few quid. But surely the local tourist board will know?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 160,732 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    I think defending as driver is best, but I also feel he should appeal late anyway and prove his medical condition, and word it like this EHRC template:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75690234#Comment_75690234

    The reason being, there is only a 'direct discrimination' argument to be made if the trader ''knew or should have known'' about the needs and condition of the consumer.

    So I say make it known and no hiding behind the POFA unless you find Lamorna Cove is covered by bylaws (unlike the Falmouth Maritime Museum car park).
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • I have also been stung with a charge for this car park (Lamorna). Does anyone happen to have dashcam footage of all the signage on the approach to the car park in particular. I don't recollect seeing anything on the approach to the car park that indicates you will be photographed on entry and exit and that that is when the charging period begins and ends. Also, does anyone have photographs of the actual signage in the carpark itself and whether or not that makes it totally clear that you are being charged right up until you exit the car park. I imagine that they catch a lot of people who drive down to have a quick look, stay ten minutes and then exit without paying and get hit with a parking charge for £100 (£60 if paid within 14 days) through the post a few days later. An additional observation is that if it happens at the beginning of a holiday and someone is still away when the letter arrives at their home address they might miss the opportunity to pay the lower 'fine'. I have until this Thursday 26/9/19 to submit my POPLA appeal.
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 59,530 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    hbsquared wrote: »
    I have also been stung with a charge for this car park (Lamorna). Does anyone happen to have dashcam footage of all the signage on the approach to the car park in particular. I don't recollect seeing anything on the approach to the car park that indicates you will be photographed on entry and exit and that that is when the charging period begins and ends. Also, does anyone have photographs of the actual signage in the carpark itself and whether or not that makes it totally clear that you are being charged right up until you exit the car park. I imagine that they catch a lot of people who drive down to have a quick look, stay ten minutes and then exit without paying and get hit with a parking charge for £100 (£60 if paid within 14 days) through the post a few days later. An additional observation is that if it happens at the beginning of a holiday and someone is still away when the letter arrives at their home address they might miss the opportunity to pay the lower 'fine'. I have until this Thursday 26/9/19 to submit my POPLA appeal.

    You really need to start your own thread once you have read the sticky thread for NEWBIES. This OP has not visited this thread for three months, and the other thread you posted on has not been visited by that OP since last year.
    It is quite possible that neither OP will see your post here.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 354K Banking & Borrowing
  • 254.3K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 455.3K Spending & Discounts
  • 247K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 603.6K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 178.3K Life & Family
  • 261.2K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.7K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.