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Civil Enforcement ltd County court summons inc disability elements

Riddelluk82
Posts: 7 Forumite
Hi all,
Sorry to start a new thread but I really couldn't find a the information I need to appeal and fight this court summons.
Firstly i have since realised that the advice to ignore letters is out of date and hence find myself in the current situation of having received a county court letter.
Onto the details,
Last summer my mother was visiting from the states and I drove her to her hotel Ibis budget, Birmingham she and my daughter who are both physically disabled and have a valid blue badge where travelling with me when I pulled up, got out the car and proceeded to unload luggage etc for checking in to the hotel, in the commotion of unloading luggage, assisting my mother and daughter from the car (parked in disabled bay, showing valid blue badge), hauling luggage to reception while my mother checked, then carrying luggage up to her room I plain forgot to get a ticket thinking would get one on the way out and it would cover my period of visit and i would argue it if they tried to make a claim, unfortunately my daughter started to cry at having to leave nanny and my concentration was to console her and get her to the car to calm down and get her home. so in the end I didn't purchase a ticket. slight over sight on my behalf, but due to the nature of the situation I didn't think twice about it. I was in the car park for 31 minutes in total.
Fast forward nearly 9 months and here we are with a court summons through my door.
as I previously stated I ignored all letters and threats under the presumption it was still the thing do to when they arrived.
In looking around into how to defend this I have read quite a few different things but the thing that gets me is the "grace period" this is a minimum of 10 min by BPA own code of conduct, would this be extended for disabled people? as in my case I was dealing with two people with physical disabilities and slower walking speeds etc.
The letter details:
claim for monies relating to a parking charge for parking in a private car park managed by the claimant in breach of the terms and conditions
Drivers are allowed to park in accordance with the T&C's of use. ANPR cameras and/or manual patrols are used to monitor vehicles entering and exiting the site.
Debt and damages claimed to the sum of: 182.00
Violations date: 5/8/2018
time in: 19.22 time out: 19.53
Total due plus interest 11.21% 193.21
in total inc fees & costs they are claiming £268.21
I have already completed the AOS and appealed the entire claim, on the money claim website as that was one of the things to do first when reading through the newbies thread.
What are the next stages? I've read so many letters and so much information my head is a bit muddled, any helps would be greatly appreciated.
Sorry to start a new thread but I really couldn't find a the information I need to appeal and fight this court summons.
Firstly i have since realised that the advice to ignore letters is out of date and hence find myself in the current situation of having received a county court letter.
Onto the details,
Last summer my mother was visiting from the states and I drove her to her hotel Ibis budget, Birmingham she and my daughter who are both physically disabled and have a valid blue badge where travelling with me when I pulled up, got out the car and proceeded to unload luggage etc for checking in to the hotel, in the commotion of unloading luggage, assisting my mother and daughter from the car (parked in disabled bay, showing valid blue badge), hauling luggage to reception while my mother checked, then carrying luggage up to her room I plain forgot to get a ticket thinking would get one on the way out and it would cover my period of visit and i would argue it if they tried to make a claim, unfortunately my daughter started to cry at having to leave nanny and my concentration was to console her and get her to the car to calm down and get her home. so in the end I didn't purchase a ticket. slight over sight on my behalf, but due to the nature of the situation I didn't think twice about it. I was in the car park for 31 minutes in total.
Fast forward nearly 9 months and here we are with a court summons through my door.
as I previously stated I ignored all letters and threats under the presumption it was still the thing do to when they arrived.
In looking around into how to defend this I have read quite a few different things but the thing that gets me is the "grace period" this is a minimum of 10 min by BPA own code of conduct, would this be extended for disabled people? as in my case I was dealing with two people with physical disabilities and slower walking speeds etc.
The letter details:
claim for monies relating to a parking charge for parking in a private car park managed by the claimant in breach of the terms and conditions
Drivers are allowed to park in accordance with the T&C's of use. ANPR cameras and/or manual patrols are used to monitor vehicles entering and exiting the site.
Debt and damages claimed to the sum of: 182.00
Violations date: 5/8/2018
time in: 19.22 time out: 19.53
Total due plus interest 11.21% 193.21
in total inc fees & costs they are claiming £268.21
I have already completed the AOS and appealed the entire claim, on the money claim website as that was one of the things to do first when reading through the newbies thread.
What are the next stages? I've read so many letters and so much information my head is a bit muddled, any helps would be greatly appreciated.
0
Comments
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Follow the guide to court written by bargepole that you will find in post 2 of the NEWBIES.
In your defence you will be citing amongst other things, the Equality Act 2010 since a reasonable adjustment was not allowed for disabled occupants of the vehicle.
As for grace periods, there are two in the BPA CoP so you need to quote them both.
In addition, loading and unloading of goods and/or people is not parking. Look up the Jopson vs Homeguard Services case where this is explained by the judge. Pay particular attention to paragraphs 19 and 20.
What happened when you complained to the landowner/hotel manager/CEO?
Have you complained to your MP yet about this unregulated scam?I married my cousin. I had to...I don't have a sister.All my screwdrivers are cordless."You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks0 -
In looking around into how to defend this I have read quite a few different things but the thing that gets me is the "grace period" this is a minimum of 10 min by BPA own code of conduct, would this be extended for disabled people? as in my case I was dealing with two people with physical disabilities and slower walking speeds etc.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/publication-download/services-public-functions-and-associations-statutory-code-practice
Your rights explained:
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/guidance-service-users
Search the first link (the actual CoP) for
(1) 'reasonable adjustments' and then
(2) 'indirect discrimination' - an anticipatory duty re the disabled population 'at large', any breach of which by a service provider cannot be heard to justified by saying they ''didn't know'' about a specific users' disability needs, then
(3) the single keyword 'tours' which gives an example of the duty to not impose arbitrary time limits without making a reasonable adjustment for disabled users.
As for a defence, search & read any defence featuring Jopson v Homeguard.
You could also cite the opinions of the Lords in the appeal case of Moncrieff:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200607/ldjudgmt/jd071017/jamie.pdf34. For the owners, use of their own vehicles would involve walking a distance of about 150 yards, in all weathers and in times of darkness as well as in daylight, over what the sheriff has described as a significantly steep descent or climb in open and exposed country. In the case of a mother with very young children, for example, this would mean leaving them unattended and unsupervised in the house while parking or collecting her vehicle, or alternatively taking her children with her on foot in such conditions to and from the place where she had to park her vehicle. Owners who had no difficulty in driving but found walking difficult because they were disabled or elderly would have to do this too, as the restriction on parking for which the defenders argue applies to everyone.
Did the express grant of a right of access carry with it a right to park?
52. But a vehicle driver who lives at Da Store is not entitled, it is insisted, to leave the vehicle at or around the Da Store gate but, instead, after unloading any goods and/or passengers at the Da Store gate, must drive back to the Sandsound branch road, leave the vehicle there and walk back to Da Store. If he or she is accompanied by small children who cannot be left alone, they must perforce accompany the driver. If that is what the driver has to do, it cannot be said that he is exercising a right of vehicular access.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?0
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Hi the issue date is 14/5/19.0
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Hi,
I didn't complain to the company or my mp, I ignored all letters and thought as it has gone to court now it would be too late to complete those steps. I do not have any of the letters sent to me either.
Would it still be worthwhile writing to mp and the company to complain?
Thank you for your help so far0 -
its.inly too late once its been to court, before that complain to the landowner, post your complaint here first.From the Plain Language Commission:
"The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"0 -
I find that a complaint on TripAdvisor about the Hotel and also on the comparison site if you used one can get this sorted.
Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.
Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.
Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted
Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.You never know how far you can go until you go too far.0 -
Riddelluk82 wrote: »Hi the issue date is 14/5/19.
That's four weeks away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but don't leave it to the last minute.
When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:-
Print your Defence.
- Sign it and date it.
- Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
- Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
- Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
- Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
- Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to keep you under pressure.
- Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
0 - Sign it and date it.
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Hi all,
Thank you for your help so far. i have taken a letter i saw posted on here that had many of the same issues as myself, but i have adjusted to add/remove the relevant parts
Defence -
1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.
2. The Particulars of Claim state that the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or the driver of the vehicle. These assertions indicate that the Claimant has failed to identify a Cause of Action, and is simply offering a menu of choices. As such, the Claim fails to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4, or with Civil Practice Direction 16, paras. 7.3 to 7.5. Further, the particulars of the claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5 as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached.
3. Due to the sparseness of the particulars, it is unclear as to what legal basis the claim is brought, whether for breach of contract, contractual liability, or trespass. However, it is denied that the Defendant, or any driver of the vehicle, entered into any contractual agreement with the Claimant, whether express, implied, or by conduct.
4. The alleged breach, according to Civil Enforcement, is in contravention of terms and conditions; clearly displayed at the entrance to and throughout the car park. The signs in this car park are not at all prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces and there is insufficient notice of the sum of the parking charge itself. At time of the alleged contravention, the one single small sign at the entrance could not be read fully and properly without stopping, and it is also possible to park in a bay without coming close to any other sign. Civil Enforcement are required to show evidence to the contrary. The signs in the car park are on exterior walls and are placed every fourth row and spaced with seven car parking spaces between them. Due to the distance and the orientation of the sign it is therefore possible to park and walk to the Morrisons Shopping Centre, particularly when parking in the middle two rows and not be able to see any clear signage which complies with BPA requirements. Here, the signs are sporadically placed. The wording is mostly illegible as it is so small in size, particularly notice of the actual parking charge itself.
5. This case can be distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 (the Beavis case) which was dependent upon an undenied contract, formed by unusually prominent signage forming a clear offer and which turned on unique facts regarding the location and the interests of the landowner. Strict compliance with the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) was paramount and Mr Beavis was the driver who saw the signs and entered into a contract to pay £85 after exceeding a licence to park free. None of this applies in this material case.
6. The defendant questions the claimants use of the Equality Act 2010 and puts them under strict proof to provide evidence of their “reasonable adjustments” to prevent “indirect discrimination” of the Grace Period stated in BPA Code of Practice 2018, section 13.1- 10 mins prior to purchase and section 13.4 - 10 minutes post purchase to vacate the parking area.
7. The claimant disputes the claimants claim that the vehicle was “parked” when it may have been unloading rather than parked. The time infringement was recorded as 31 minutes if accurate. Jopson vs Homeguard services 2016 shows that parking cannot be given any justifiable period of time. See paragraph 19 & 20.
“19 The appellant’s case could also be put in another way. The purported prohibition was upon “parking”, and it is possible to draw a real and sensible distinction between pausing for a few moments or minutes to passengers to alight or for awkward or heavy items to be unloaded, and parking in the sense of leaving a car for some significant duration of time.
20 Neither party was able to direct the court to any authority on the meaning of the word “park”. However, the Shorter Oxford Dictionary has the following: “To leave a vehicle in a carpark or other reserved space” and “To leave in a suitable place until required.” The concept of parking, as opposed to stopping, is that of leaving a car for some duration of time beyond that needed for getting in or out of it, loading or unloading it, and perhaps coping with some vicissitude of short duration, such as changing a wheel in the event of a puncture. Merely to stop a vehicle cannot be to park it; otherwise traffic jams would consist of lines of parked cars. Delivery vans, whether for post, newspapers, groceries, or anything else, would not be accommodated on an interpretation which included vehicles stopping for a few moment for these purposes. Discussion in this area left the respondent in obvious difficulties, from which the attractive advocacy of Miss Fenwick was unable to rescue it.
8. The Claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol:2
a. There was no compliant ‘Letter before County Court Claim’, under the Practice Direction.
b. The Claim Form Particulars fail to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4 – they are extremely sparse and divulged no cause of action nor sufficient detail. The Defendant has no idea what the claim is about, why the charge arose, what the original charge was, what the alleged contract was; nothing that could be considered a fair exchange of information.
c. The separate particulars of claim are vague and do not explain how the charge has been calculated as required by the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct and Protocols.
d. The Claimant has incorrectly calculated the interest from the date of the alleged parking event and not from the date of any cause of action or costs. No cause of action could possibly arise until 28 days after the Parking Notice was served as stated in the Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 .
e. The Claim Form was not correctly filed under the Practice Direction as it was not signed by a legal person but signed by “Claimants Legal representative”.
f. This is a speculative serial litigant, issuing a large number of identical 'draft particulars'. The badly mail-merged documents contain very little information. The covering letter merely contains a supposed PCN number with no contravention nor photographs.
9. The Claim is for breach of contract; however, the Defendant denies any contract existed. The Claimant failed to establish a contract with the driver due to inadequate signage around the car park incapable of binding the driver. This distinguishes this case from the Beavis case, Specifically:
a. Poorly worded signs which do not make it clear that charges apply for overstay.
b. Poorly located signage at the entrance and around the car park which are out of the line of sight for a driver.
c. No mention of any debt collection additional charge, which therefore cannot form part of any alleged contract.
10. The Claimant has failed to comply with the strict requirements of the Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012, schedule 4 (PoFA 2012):
a. The driver of the vehicle has not been identified. The Defendant is the registered keeper but was not the Driver. In order for the Claimant to transfer liability from the driver to the keeper, they must do so within the strict requirements of PoFA 2012. This too was confirmed by Mr Greenslade, POPLA Lead Adjudicator in page 8 of the 2015 POPLA Report: “If POFA 2012 Schedule 4 is not complied with then keeper liability does not generally pass.”
b. The Claimant did not issue a “Notice to Driver” at the time of the alleged offence; therefore, the Claimant is put to strict proof that a “Notice to Keeper” was issued within the required timeframe of 14 days after the alleged offence in accordance with PoFA 2012 para. 9(5).
c. In failing to comply with the PoFA 2012, the Claimant cannot hold the Keeper liable for any of the claim.
11. The Claimant has no standing to bring a case - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case.
a. It is believed the Claimant does not hold a legitimate contract at this car park. The Defendant has no evidence that they have any proprietary interest in the car park/land in question. As an agent, the Claimant has no legal right to bring such a claim in their name. Any such claim should be in the name of the landowner.
b. The Defendant asks the Claimant to provide a full, up-to date and signed/dated contract with the landowner (a statement saying someone has seen the contract is not enough). The contract needs to state that the Claimant is entitled to pursue matters such as these through the issue of Parking Charge Notices and in the courts in their own name. I clarify that this should be an actual copy and not just a document that claims a contract/agreement exists.
12. Even if a contract had been established it would be void. The Defendant asserts that the Claimant was not acting in “good faith” and that the charges are unlawful, as they are in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, specifically regulation 62(4).
a. The Defendant believes that the charges added Legal Representative (£50) are fake and were not incurred by the Claimant and therefore cannot be recovered in Court as part of this claim.
b. Even if the Legal representative’s cost of £50 is genuine it cannot be recovered in Court as this does not comply with Civil Procedure Rule 27.14
c. If the £50 legal cost to prepare the claim was not incurred, the statement of truth must be false.
d. The Claimant is put to strict proof that it paid any debt recovery agency or legal representative in escalating the matter. If incurred – the defendant believes this consists of the administration staff of the Claimant performing their normal duties. The Defendant believes this is another example of the Claimant artificially inflating the amount of the claim.
13. As the claimant has not identified the driver they cannot assume the keeper/driver are on and the same at the time of the supposed contravention. Reference POFA 2012
In light of the reasons above, the Defendant respectfully asks the court to strike out this claim with immediate effect.
STATEMENT OF TRUTH
I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true.
********************************
could you please advise me if it needs altering further and what the next steps are.
Thank you in advance0 -
That's a fairly old an waffly version of a defence, and straight away I would remove #8 #9 and #10 (your case is not about 'overstay' as such) and there is no point hiding behind the POFA when you were driving and the main points you need to tell the Judge are the truth about the unloading/disability issues, which is not parking.
Better to use bargepole's concise defence, then add the facts to it, as you told us in your first post (but not that you 'forgot to pay').
Simply that the 31 minutes was not parking/leaving the car for a significant period, it was (official local authority parking term) ''exempt activity'' of unloading and assisted boarding/alighting of passengers, which has as much application as an exemption on private land as it does on street, especially when it was two exemptions (unloading cases and taking them up to the room, plus assisting disabled people) making the 'dropping off' process a few minutes longer than if you were dropping off able bodied patrons to the Hotel.
And bring in Lord Neuberger & co, who Judges look up to, as I advised earlier:You could also cite the opinions of the Lords in the appeal case of Moncrieff:PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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