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  • FIRST POST
    • mimiduck
    • By mimiduck 11th Nov 18, 8:25 PM
    • 184Posts
    • 82Thanks
    mimiduck
    From PropertyMoose to UKDiversified
    • #1
    • 11th Nov 18, 8:25 PM
    From PropertyMoose to UKDiversified 11th Nov 18 at 8:25 PM
    Hi,


    Basically i had some shares in a company called PropertyMoose which was a property company that rented out properties. However in the last few months a company called UK Diversified Property has taken over everything which to me seems extremely bizarre. I was trying to look into whether a company can take over the funds etc. and if so in what terms. Apparently there was a vote that sharers were able to vote on however for some reason some of the emails the PropertyMoose sent went into my spam.



    My issue now is the new company keeps sending just overall comments as to how the progress is going with property refurbishments however I am not happy with them (no actual funds coming in and I have a feeling this will be going on for a long time) . I have asked already if I can sell my shares and waiting to hear back, however would like to know if the first company can just move my shares over to a different company without my personal sayso?


    Comments are appreciated as I am quite new to investing and I've mainly done property shares in the last few years.
Page 1
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 11th Nov 18, 9:00 PM
    • 5,778 Posts
    • 5,039 Thanks
    Alexland
    • #2
    • 11th Nov 18, 9:00 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Nov 18, 9:00 PM
    Do you mean Property Moose - a trading name of DFI Financial Services Ltd at https://propertymoose.co.uk ?

    If so did you really own shares or did you have specific property investments on their platform which have now been transferred to UK Diversified Property Plc at https://ukdiversifiedproperty.com ?

    As part of the transfer of property were you granted shares in the new company?

    edit: Aah yes..

    http://p2pindependentforum.com/thread/13429/new-portal-diversified-property-plc

    The PLC was formed to bring together the entire portfolio of buy-to-let properties acquired by Property Moose investors. By bringing together the properties into a single structure, it is hoped that cost savings and efficiencies will lead to higher shareholder returns. There are 100 properties in the portfolio, which are currently individually owned by separate combinations of shareholders. Significant improvements to profitability will be possible by combining the assets into single legal entity and paying dividends accordingly.
    It looks like they only gave people 5 days to vote and now, until (or unless) they complete their listing on LSE, you now own an illiquid share which should pay dividends 4 times a year. Even then it might trade at a discount to the underlying holdings due to lack of demand.

    Even if you did vote to leave that option is conditional on them raising a bank loan to repay you later in the year.

    Without knowing the terms by which you originally invested it's hard to comment but this is probably not what you expected when you signed up. It looks like a convenient way for DFI to offload the assets (and customer relationships) as a dump and run.

    https://propertymoose.co.uk/support/article/portfolio-transfer-faq

    From our own experience to date with the properties we have on the market and from some of our members own assessments of the conditions, the sales market appears to be slow and it may not be possible to achieve sales as quickly as was originally anticipated. In addition, due to the continuing changes to the property market as a result of things like Brexit and individual buy-to-let ownership changes, the price that could be achieved now is likely to be less than some of the funds raised. This means that the properties could be sat empty for longer periods, resulting in more costs and no returns whilst untenanted whilst potentially ultimately selling in a potentially declining market.
    Those comments are hardly going to support the share price if it does get an exchange listing!!

    Alex
    Last edited by Alexland; 11-11-2018 at 9:22 PM.
    • mimiduck
    • By mimiduck 12th Nov 18, 6:02 PM
    • 184 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    mimiduck
    • #3
    • 12th Nov 18, 6:02 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Nov 18, 6:02 PM
    Thanks for taking the time to reply Alex.


    So yes, i invested in some of the properties and yes the funds/properties have been transferred.



    Basically the customer service at Property Moose said that there was a vote which took place and an email was sent. These all went to my junk so I never received anything. They also said if I did not vote they automatically accept this as a YES, transfer funds, which to me is strange. However they did say all of this is in their T&Cs (clause 10.2 https://propertymoose.co.uk/terms )but how can i check when is the last time they have updated their T&Cs? I dont think they have a signed copy of this on file with my signature but i'm guessing with a 'you are using services therefore you have accepted T&Cs' is acceptable these days however is there any legal limits to company saying whatever they want in their terms and conditions?
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 12th Nov 18, 6:57 PM
    • 5,778 Posts
    • 5,039 Thanks
    Alexland
    • #4
    • 12th Nov 18, 6:57 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Nov 18, 6:57 PM
    If it helps the internet archive 'Wayback Machine' took a copy of the terms webpage twice in 2016:

    https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://propertymoose.co.uk/terms

    On the copy from 15th October 2016 the clause 10.2 read:

    10.2 investors will be contacted via email using the address associated with that investor’s account with Property Moose and will be invited to vote on Key Decisions within the specified time period (which will be a reasonable time in the circumstances, as determined by the board of directors of the relevant SPV). If a response is not received by the end of the specified time period, the relevant investors are deemed to vote in favour. Property Moose will send reminders at appropriate intervals. A vote is passed by a 75% majority (by number of shares beneficially held).
    However to understand if this was a fair contract or if these actions are legitimate you may need legal advice. If you wanted to progress this it might be more efficient to work as a group of investors. Were the circumstances really so urgent that 5 days became reasonable?

    Alex
    Last edited by Alexland; 12-11-2018 at 7:01 PM.
    • gld73
    • By gld73 13th Nov 18, 5:08 PM
    • 217 Posts
    • 125 Thanks
    gld73
    • #5
    • 13th Nov 18, 5:08 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Nov 18, 5:08 PM
    I'm in the same situation - some investments I made with Property Moose are still with Property Moose (that seems to be the investments in "buy to sell" properties), but it seems that the "buy to let" portfolio has all been shifted over to this other organisation and lumped in together, rather than investors just being invested in the individual properties they chose to invest in. Logging in to the website doesn't show how much I've invested or what I invested in as it did on the PM website.

    PM featured in the press as a good way of investing in property with smaller amounts of money, but I've a horrible feeling that I'll be lucky to get my capital back, let alone the interest on the loans or the rental income ....
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 13th Nov 18, 6:39 PM
    • 5,778 Posts
    • 5,039 Thanks
    Alexland
    • #6
    • 13th Nov 18, 6:39 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Nov 18, 6:39 PM
    Yes the approach of giving you shares in the new company means that any careful selection you performed to pick which BTL properties to invest is now pretty meaningless. Given the number of properties and customers affected I am surprised there isn't a greater 'buzz' on the internet about this issue.

    Fingers crossed you both get some money back eventually.

    Alex
    • gld73
    • By gld73 20th Dec 18, 6:20 PM
    • 217 Posts
    • 125 Thanks
    gld73
    • #7
    • 20th Dec 18, 6:20 PM
    • #7
    • 20th Dec 18, 6:20 PM
    For info, it seems a website has now been set up by people who have been scammed; guess I should be taking a look at this

    http://propertymoosescam.com/
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 20th Dec 18, 6:27 PM
    • 5,778 Posts
    • 5,039 Thanks
    Alexland
    • #8
    • 20th Dec 18, 6:27 PM
    • #8
    • 20th Dec 18, 6:27 PM
    I don't know if these 'Property Moose Scam' people are genuine but be aware there is a type of secondary fraud that targets people who have lost money in failed investments.

    https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/a-z-of-fraud/fraud-recovery-fraud

    Alex
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