IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including QR codes, number plates and reference numbers.

3 years between PCN and Court presence demanded

189101113

Comments

  • I hand delivered my skeleton argument this morning, rather than put it into the internal post system, I handed it to the guy on reception and explained to him what it was and why I was dropping it in at short notice. He said he could get it to the judge today, rather than tomorrow morning.

    I also emailed it all to BW last night as suggested.

    Do I need to take three copies in tomorrow or will two be enough, assuming that the judge will have the copy I dropped off this morning?

    Thanks again to you all for your help.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,454 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    edited 29 October 2018 at 3:16PM
    Two can be enough if printing is an issue.

    ALSO print off a copy of the sent email(s) to the other side, in case their rep bleats they were NEVER sent your evidence etc. That lie is VERY common with this scam.

    OUTSIDE of the court room, be civil but don't speak to the rep nor accept any paperwork foisted at you - see redrabbit17's account of how they played it last week.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Ralph-y
    Ralph-y Posts: 4,563 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    good luck ....




    Ralph:cool:
  • So.........................
  • This morning has been and gone.
    Having been fairly calm in the lead up to this morning I was surprised by how nervous I felt during the last few hours.
    I arrived with a Nero about 30 mins before the allotted time, feeling comfortable with my preparation. I spent the time re-reading my defence and familiarising myself once more with the cases I had bought with me.
    The opposing solicitor arrived about 15 mins after me, and was very polite. He introduced himself, and didn't try anything untoward. He did ask if it was my first time in court, and he explained how things would work. I guess this was his way to gain advantage over me by knowing it was my first time, but I was happy for him to underestimate me, I guessed that he had not read my skeleton argument.

    The majority of the case was a test of my patience, I had to remain silent whilst the judge questioned him. The Judge immediately said that the claimant didn't use POFA 2012 so was relying upon owner=driver. The Claimant explained his argument, using the obvious CPS Vs AJH. The Judge allowed him to explain, but quickly said "I assume ......... would site the Excel Vs Smith case and explained why. All I did was agree. The judge pretty much disregarded the argument going into detail about the difference between an individual and a business as well as the logic used by the Judge in the Smith V Excel case.
    He asked me if I wanted to add anything, and I said I would like to reitterate a couple of the quotes from my skeleton, and I read aloud the part where it is considered trite law that the owner does not equal the driver, the key gambit from Smith Excel and t a key paragraph from POPLA 2015. Then I said that although I am an untrained solicitor, these are all points made by senior individuals which say essentially the same thing.

    The Judge explained that the Claimant has 2 ways to win this case. 1 is prove the keeper was driving, which they can'y. 2 is POFA 2012 which they don't do. There is a third, which they are attempting to use, which is [I can't remember the name of it, but assuming contractual obligation is accepted by the driver on behalf of the keeper]. He then said that it was not agreeable as already explained.

    He said that although this was a prelim hearing, and the case was not yet on a track for small claims, and the reason was to set aside a strike out of the defence, he was going to strike out the Claimant.:beer::j:beer::j:beer::j:T:T:T:rotfl:
    He said that my defence didn't originally contain a denial, hence the original decision was correct but upon my submission, (which he was very thankful of) it was clear that there was a denial, and there was no case for the Claimant.
    The Claimant asked for appeal on the same grounds as 3 above, and the Judge denied it, saying that there was no error here, the verdict would be the same.

    I then asked for my expenses to be reimbursed. I had a schedule drawn up. He took down some of the details, allowing travel, parking and stationary as I requested. He capped a half day of my time for appearing in court (per small claims) at £95 and agreed on £19/hour for 15 hours of my time. So The Claimant now owes me almost £400 for their troubles!!! :beer::j:money::D:rotfl::T
    It is worth mentioning for others benefit that their main route was the contractual side of things, and the fact that before 2012 there must have been a way for parking companies to claim funds, or it wasn't fair on them. The Judge was having none of this tripe, but it is worth others being prepared to hear this so they can defend themselves if the Judge does pay attention to it.

    I can't thank you all enough for your assistance in the whole process. I would never have persevered so far, never mind actually got the Claim struck out and claimed expenses. This weekend's toil (and missing spending time with my daughter) were all worthwhile. I am so happy, I wish I was able to go straight to the pub!

    If there is anything I can do to help you all in some way, or to show my appreciation pleas let me know. I am so thankful to you all!!!!! :T:T:T:T:T:T
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,584 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    If there is anything I can do to help you all in some way, or to show my appreciation pleas let me know. I am so thankful to you all!!!!! :T:T:T:T:T:T
    Very well done. :D

    There is one small thing you could do...

    Please can you write to your MP and tell him/her how this has affected you.

    Point out to him the current Private Members Bill currently making its way through Parliament. Ask him to support this Bill being promoted by Sir Greg Knight MP.
  • System
    System Posts: 178,093 Community Admin
    Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    The Judge explained that the Claimant has 2 ways to win this case. 1 is prove the keeper was driving, which they can'y. 2 is POFA 2012 which they don't do. There is a third, which they are attempting to use, which is [I can't remember the name of it, but assuming contractual obligation is accepted by the driver on behalf of the keeper]. He then said that it was not agreeable as already explained.

    This is where you nearly came a cropper. If anyone was not driving, it pays to tell the PPC as early as possible - and well before they issue a claim.
    to show my appreciation

    You could hang around and give posters comments from your experience. You'll know it is a bewildering day when in court, so you'll be able to assure people from your own knowledge of the process.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,454 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    edited 30 October 2018 at 8:56PM
    He capped a half day of my time for appearing in court (per small claims) at £95 and agreed on £19/hour for 15 hours of my time. So The Claimant now owes me almost £400 for their troubles!!!
    Fantastic!!

    I came here to seek out your thread and add the usual comment:

    ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST!

    ...and I wasn't disappointed, we knew you could do it! And nearly £400 costs too!

    Please do come back and stick around, you are now a 'POFA/no keeper liability' expert and someone who has been to court (which is more than I or many regulars have) so you would be a welcome addition to this forum even just as and when you can!

    :T
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • beamerguy
    beamerguy Posts: 17,587 Forumite
    First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    Love it, love it, BWLegal screw it up again. :j

    I have added this to my favourite BWLegal page

    BWLegal - the list of failures growing
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5672664
  • Certainly not an expert but I'll gladly hang around and try to assist others.
    I'll also write to my MP and see if I can help in that way too.
    Thanks again.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 343.1K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 235.2K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 607.9K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173K Life & Family
  • 247.8K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards