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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Megan F
    • By MSE Megan F 23rd Jul 18, 11:02 AM
    • 395Posts
    • 197Thanks
    MSE Megan F
    'Smart meters will save consumers just 11 a year' - MSE News
    • #1
    • 23rd Jul 18, 11:02 AM
    'Smart meters will save consumers just 11 a year' - MSE News 23rd Jul 18 at 11:02 AM
    Customers who have smart meters installed will save just 11 a year on their energy bills, according to a new report

    Read the full story:
    ''Smart meters will save consumers just 11 a year''

    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven!!!8217;t already, join the forum to reply.
    Read the latest MSE News
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Page 1
    • gsmlnx
    • By gsmlnx 23rd Jul 18, 11:06 AM
    • 1,542 Posts
    • 1,119 Thanks
    gsmlnx
    • #2
    • 23rd Jul 18, 11:06 AM
    • #2
    • 23rd Jul 18, 11:06 AM
    Already being discussed at https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5871044
    • keithtmoir
    • By keithtmoir 24th Jul 18, 6:17 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    keithtmoir
    • #3
    • 24th Jul 18, 6:17 AM
    • #3
    • 24th Jul 18, 6:17 AM
    ts all hype I got one fitted because we have all paid for it to be done anyway and my gas meter is in a hard to read place. For the first few weeks watching the usage is a novelty but didn't reduce my usage at all as I am pretty efficient. I have now removed the display from view and am carrying on as I was
    • Smurfy84
    • By Smurfy84 24th Jul 18, 9:49 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Smurfy84
    • #4
    • 24th Jul 18, 9:49 AM
    • #4
    • 24th Jul 18, 9:49 AM
    Just 11 works out to many millions a year in savings over the entire country, When an energy supplier put their prices up by an average of 30 a year you don't use the word just, you use words like hike. There is just no pleasing some....
    • Paul_DNAP
    • By Paul_DNAP 24th Jul 18, 10:07 AM
    • 509 Posts
    • 630 Thanks
    Paul_DNAP
    • #5
    • 24th Jul 18, 10:07 AM
    • #5
    • 24th Jul 18, 10:07 AM
    Just 11 works out to many millions a year in savings over the entire country, When an energy supplier put their prices up by an average of 30 a year you don't use the word just, you use words like hike. There is just no pleasing some....
    Originally posted by Smurfy84

    Yes, but given that these things are being pushed out there as a way to save energy, be greener and save money then it is quite the joke that they won't even claw back half of the last price "hike", and that is far from the promised revolution in your home energy finances.


    Oh, and the monetary savings won't even cover the half day's holiday I'd have to take to let them install it. And the energy savings won't cover the carbon footprint of the manufacture and installation of the devices.
    (Although I could be wrong, I often am.)
    • thorganby
    • By thorganby 24th Jul 18, 11:07 AM
    • 223 Posts
    • 181 Thanks
    thorganby
    • #6
    • 24th Jul 18, 11:07 AM
    • #6
    • 24th Jul 18, 11:07 AM
    Just 11 works out to many millions a year in savings over the entire country, When an energy supplier put their prices up by an average of 30 a year you don't use the word just, you use words like hike. There is just no pleasing some....
    Originally posted by Smurfy84
    They won't save customers anything!

    We are all paying for this pathetic roll out program organised by idiots and they will most likely still be fitting the obsolete first generation SMETS1 meters next year, when the cut off date is extended yet again.

    Eventually when time of use tariffs are implemented, we will all have to pay more for our energy at peak times, which will more than wipe out any projected saving figures being quoted now!
    • vacheron
    • By vacheron 24th Jul 18, 12:24 PM
    • 947 Posts
    • 915 Thanks
    vacheron
    • #7
    • 24th Jul 18, 12:24 PM
    • #7
    • 24th Jul 18, 12:24 PM
    I'm a technology embracing Electronics Engineer with no issue with potential future time tariff pricing, but despite this smart-meters have still been a total waste of money in my experience.

    Joined British Gas a couple of years ago as they had a really good tariff. (Via the MSE Cheaper Energy Club).

    They installed brand new Gas and Electricity Smartmeters and the plug in wireless display at doubtless a considerable cost in both materials and labor.

    It was an interesting facility to have, however I can't say it saved us much at all as what do you do if you have exceeded your daily target but still have a family meal to cook? Eat cold beans out of a can?

    So, 15 months later and the British Gas fixed deal expires and their standard tarrif would have been 80 per MONTH more expensive so I was forced to change suppliers (to Avro energy).

    Avro have been great but don't support smart-meters, so all this 15 month old "smart" technology is sitting there being used as a normal meter I have to read manually (I am happy to read them myself 4 times per year rather than pay BG 960 per year more for the convenience!.

    Now I am coming to renew again, there are good tarrifs with smartmeter companies, but apparently the British Gas meters are not compatible, so they will be ripped out at less than 3 years old and will go to landfill so that new meters can replace them. Who will eventually pay for all these 2 and 3 year old meters in skips across the land? The customers!

    By contrast I installed a Hive system and have seen my energy costs fall by 30%.

    Overall a stupidly naive policy implemented poorly and all too hastily.
    Last edited by vacheron; 24-07-2018 at 12:30 PM.
    The rich buy assets.
    The poor only have expenses.
    The middle class buy liabilities they think are assets.
    Robert T. Kiyosaki
    • misterbarlow
    • By misterbarlow 24th Jul 18, 5:08 PM
    • 432 Posts
    • 276 Thanks
    misterbarlow
    • #8
    • 24th Jul 18, 5:08 PM
    • #8
    • 24th Jul 18, 5:08 PM

    Now I am coming to renew again, there are good tarrifs with smartmeter companies, but apparently the British Gas meters are not compatible, so they will be ripped out at less than 3 years old and will go to landfill so that new meters can replace them. Who will eventually pay for all these 2 and 3 year old meters in skips across the land? The customers!
    by vacheron
    They wont be going to landfill, old style dumb meters are only about 10-20 each and they have historically always been re-used for the last 40yrs.
    All meters have a certification life span (normally now around 20yrs), any meter with more than 5yrs of that remaining is re-used..

    Smart meters cost around 80-100 each so there is no way any company will be just scrapping removed ones, 2-3 weeks after removal they will have been checked over, cleaned up, and be working away in someone else's home!!!
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 24th Jul 18, 10:30 PM
    • 2,515 Posts
    • 3,962 Thanks
    badmemory
    • #9
    • 24th Jul 18, 10:30 PM
    • #9
    • 24th Jul 18, 10:30 PM
    Wow a whole 11 a year! Does anyone actually believe this carp. I wouldn't even switch suppliers for that little as it really isn't worth the aggro. Reduce my DD by a whole 90p/month - rich beyond the dreams of avarice. Not that that is ever going to happen because the standing charge to pay for this fiasco has gone up way way more than that.
    • frugalmacdugal
    • By frugalmacdugal 24th Jul 18, 10:47 PM
    • 6,561 Posts
    • 5,623 Thanks
    frugalmacdugal
    Hi,


    smart meters don't save you money, you pay for what you use.


    The idea is that the monitor lets you see what you are using at a particular time, and prompt you to switch off any appliance wasting energy, that's how you save money.
    Y'all take care now.
    • Ande1975
    • By Ande1975 24th Jul 18, 11:52 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Ande1975
    Smarts
    Ok, so to quell a few myths. Smets 2 meters have been available since April 2018. They have Booster thus avoiding any connection issues. All of the BIG 6 can download software to each others meters due to regulations imposed by Offgem. the issue comes when you change to a smaller provider, who a: Due to loopholes has no regulation from Offgem, b: also means you dont have the backing of the Ombudsman service. So in other words, what might appear cheaper, may well turn out to be a financial nightmare. The new Smart meters are smaller than current meters. Benefits are available to all people, for elderly people it means they don't have to stress about trying to read the meter which may be difficult for them, also useful for people who work full time as saves hassle. For younger people, or people on a budget it allows them to budget.. Win, Win, You aren't putting meter readers out of business, they are technicians, reading meters is a secondary job which an energy company is only required by law to read your meter once every 2 years. Hence, if you don't provide readings and your supplier has estimated bills and massively underestimated for that period then you may end up with a multi thousand pound bill when an actual reading is obtained. The meters only record readings every 30 mins to update in home display, energy companies only pull readings once per month and the information stored on meters is only energy info and is encrypted. Doesn't matter if a customer has a standard credit or Smart meter, an energy company can obtain a court order and enter your property with a locksmith regardless of whether you are in attendance or not to install a different meter, customers do not own the meters, the energy company does ( This is currently only enforced with non payment of bills and installation of prepayment meters). Finally, Martin Lewis provides amazing advice, i used to work for Sky, when Mr Lewis advised everyone to leave Sky as they were seriously overpriced, he stated... "there isn't anything you can't get with another provider", lots of people left, April brought a new season of Game of Thrones and lots of complaints because they couldn't get Sky Atlantic with their new provider. He may know what he's talking about with credit cards, but tbh he knows about as much as you or I regarding other things and is just another person expressing his opinion which people blindly follow.
    • frugalmacdugal
    • By frugalmacdugal 25th Jul 18, 12:00 AM
    • 6,561 Posts
    • 5,623 Thanks
    frugalmacdugal
    Hi,


    your post is hard to read, could you edit please and paragraph.


    Thanks.
    Y'all take care now.
    • robin58
    • By robin58 25th Jul 18, 12:38 AM
    • 2,705 Posts
    • 3,269 Thanks
    robin58
    The whole point is are you willing to chase a saving of 2.7p a day by constantly checking your usage. You don't get a 11 saving, you have to do the work for it.

    Most people won't.

    Ande1975, See you have fallen for the publicity blurb. Yep that's all fine and dandy but those are not the real forward reasons they want you to install a smart meter.

    One of those advance uses they don't tell you is charging you different prices depending on time on day and network demand.

    So when there is a big football match like the World Cup, they could charge you more for your electricity due to the high demand.
    The more I live, the more I learn.
    The more I learn, the more I grow.
    The more I grow, the more I see.
    The more I see, the more I know.
    The more I know, the more I see,
    How little I know.!!
    • waamo
    • By waamo 25th Jul 18, 12:55 AM
    • 6,570 Posts
    • 8,720 Thanks
    waamo
    I can't take part days off work. The time off alone will cost me so much that the meter will be obsolete and need replacing before I ever recouped my lost earnings.

    That's if I'm still around given I would have to live to over 90.
    This space for hire.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 25th Jul 18, 1:23 AM
    • 2,515 Posts
    • 3,962 Thanks
    badmemory
    The only way I am ever going to reduce my usage (after getting rid of the CRT TVs & computer screens which I did years ago) is to dump my old fridge & freezer which will save me 2 thirds of their usage. I'm not going to do that until I have spent several k replacing my kitchen. I know this - what else can a smart meter possibly tell me? Answers on a postcard to - I really hate the size of my energy bills/ripoffs.com
    • thorganby
    • By thorganby 25th Jul 18, 3:58 PM
    • 223 Posts
    • 181 Thanks
    thorganby
    Ok, so to quell a few myths. Smets 2 meters have been available since April 2018. They have Booster thus avoiding any connection issues. All of the BIG 6 can download software to each others meters due to regulations imposed by Offgem. the issue comes when you change to a smaller provider, who a: Due to loopholes has no regulation from Offgem, b: also means you dont have the backing of the Ombudsman service. So in other words, what might appear cheaper, may well turn out to be a financial nightmare. The new Smart meters are smaller than current meters. Benefits are available to all people, for elderly people it means they don't have to stress about trying to read the meter which may be difficult for them, also useful for people who work full time as saves hassle. For younger people, or people on a budget it allows them to budget.. Win, Win, You aren't putting meter readers out of business, they are technicians, reading meters is a secondary job which an energy company is only required by law to read your meter once every 2 years. Hence, if you don't provide readings and your supplier has estimated bills and massively underestimated for that period then you may end up with a multi thousand pound bill when an actual reading is obtained. The meters only record readings every 30 mins to update in home display, energy companies only pull readings once per month and the information stored on meters is only energy info and is encrypted. Doesn't matter if a customer has a standard credit or Smart meter, an energy company can obtain a court order and enter your property with a locksmith regardless of whether you are in attendance or not to install a different meter, customers do not own the meters, the energy company does ( This is currently only enforced with non payment of bills and installation of prepayment meters). Finally, Martin Lewis provides amazing advice, i used to work for Sky, when Mr Lewis advised everyone to leave Sky as they were seriously overpriced, he stated... "there isn't anything you can't get with another provider", lots of people left, April brought a new season of Game of Thrones and lots of complaints because they couldn't get Sky Atlantic with their new provider. He may know what he's talking about with credit cards, but tbh he knows about as much as you or I regarding other things and is just another person expressing his opinion which people blindly follow.
    Originally posted by Ande1975
    Most forum members are far more savvy than you think and they certainly won't "blindly follow" the misinformed rubbish that you have posted about energy suppliers and smart meters!
    • waamo
    • By waamo 25th Jul 18, 4:15 PM
    • 6,570 Posts
    • 8,720 Thanks
    waamo
    Most forum members are far more savvy than you think and they certainly won't "blindly follow" the misinformed rubbish that you have posted about energy suppliers and smart meters!
    Originally posted by thorganby
    I tried to read it but sadly the lack of paragraphs made it too difficult.

    I'm glad you pointed out it is misinformed rubbish as I suspected it was all along.
    This space for hire.
    • Simmer45
    • By Simmer45 25th Jul 18, 9:19 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Simmer45
    I do not want a smart meter fitted. I know what energy I'm using. Telling me every 5 minutes (?) that I have my central heating on or am boiling a kettle for a cup of tea won't make me only half boil the kettle so it doesn't make tea or have the heating off so I end up in hospital with hypothermia. Although in my 7th decade I can still read and write and get a meter reading sent in so I never have estimated bills. I am now being plagued daily by my provider (or their 'agents'?) that they are "in my area and can fit my smart meter". Why don't they give me a number I can call to say "go away!" I think they want us to have smart meters so they can charge us extra for energy at what they decide is 'peak' time.
    Last edited by Simmer45; 25-07-2018 at 9:20 PM. Reason: spelling errror
    • AndyPK
    • By AndyPK 26th Jul 18, 9:26 AM
    • 3,786 Posts
    • 1,112 Thanks
    AndyPK
    You with SSE by any chance?
    • Fitzmichael
    • By Fitzmichael 26th Jul 18, 10:10 AM
    • 130 Posts
    • 58 Thanks
    Fitzmichael
    Another problem for some
    I was with BrGas and they offered Smart meters, which I accepted but I agree they're unlikely to save you money. Not long after, their price shot up so I switched to E.on and the meters switched off. Even though E.on were offering them, they said they could not read BrGas ones. This article makes me suspect that this is not because of how the meters work but because of how the info is sent/received or encoded. Does anyone at MSE know?
    So my complaint is not that I can't watch the monitor like a hawk, but how difficult it now is to take a reading and submit it. I am 77 but could read the mechanical, clock-like displays without glasses; the digital ones are fainter, especially if I cant shelter them from the sunlight theyre in an outside cupboard. The gas meter is a particular problem. As in all the many houses I have lived in or seen, the gas meter is just above the floor/ground. I could see the (sharp, black) mechanical display by bending slightly and looking down on it but now I need to press a button and look more or less directly at the electronic display. This means kneeling on the ground outside the cupboard, bending full forward and tipping my head backwards. I had only looked in order to have a reading when switching, so when I pointed this out to Br Gas, I was told to "mention any vulnerabilities" to my new supplier, who said it was not their problem.
    I have never considered whether I might qualify as disabled(and so, what?), when I am less so than some younger people but, in conversation with a surveyor some years ago, I mentioned how awkwardly positioned gas/electricity meters often seemed to be, and without reason, and he responded that that was because builders put them in where it was most convenient and cheapest for them and there was no regulation to make them have the least concern for the convenience of householders. I'm not surprised, unfortunately, that it has never concerned the local govt 'experts' who devise the Building Regulations.
    I complained to the Ombudsman, got an acknowledgement, then nothing. I had a resurgence of my illness, and didn't persevere. Then, a week ago, I got this:
    To: OS Enquiries (Energy)
    Subject: Smart meters functionality
    Sent: 18 May 2017 23:47:13 (UTC+00:00) Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London
    was deleted without being read on 17 July 2018 11:54:13 (UTC+00:00) Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London.


    Again, does anyone know whether the regulator has any power here, and does MSE have any care how a regulator can get away with this?
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