No Building Regulation Completion Certificates - Any other options?

Thrugelmir · 16 December 2017 at 6:05PM

tygar2 wrote: »

My lender has not expressed any concerns. The inspected property and offered mortgage with no conditions attached.

The solicitor works for the lender as well as yourselves. The mortgage offer is still "subject to". Not cast in iron. The property has to provide adequate security for the money to be advanced.

tygar2 · 16 December 2017 at 9:39PM

davidmcn wrote: »

That's a clear valuation and no conditions on the assumption that all necessary consents exist for the works. Your solicitor will need to ensure that they're happy with whatever is being offered in the absence of the expected paperwork.

See the CML Handbook (which is the standard set of solicitor instructions used by most lenders):

Thanks davidmcn
I just learned something new. So essentially the solicitor is also working for the bank's interests on my dime...:doh:
Now I understand my solicitor's rather lazy response of "covered by indemnity insurance" to all queries I raised - he means the bank's interests are somehow "covered" by a pointless insurance. My interests appear secondary. All concerns I discussed in this thread were raised by me. They are not the least bit bothered.

As far as I know the mortgage side is fine since the solicitors are already taking about completion instead of pushing to get proper documentation which ensures we are getting a properly maintained house. Should the bank somehow revise valuation, I will amend the offer accordingly. If seller refuses then that is that.

The whole house buying system is a mess.

maisie_cat · 16 December 2017 at 9:43PM

lincroft1710 wrote: »

Double glazing if post 2002 should have a Fensa certificate. New boiler should have building regs approval, many CH installers can self certify and notify building control.

A Certass certificate or building control signoff are other routes for window/door installations, people do look for FENSA as if it's the only route but it's not

tygar2 · 16 December 2017 at 9:44PM

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The solicitor works for the lender as well as yourselves. The mortgage offer is still "subject to". Not cast in iron. The property has to provide adequate security for the money to be advanced.

Thanks

Makes the £500 I paid for a bank valuation seem like a con since it now appears a worthless exercise. As part of the valuation, Building Regulation issues could easily be checked.

Doozergirl · 18 December 2017 at 11:56AM

tygar2 wrote: »

Thanks

Makes the £500 I paid for a bank valuation seem like a con since it now appears a worthless exercise. As part of the valuation, Building Regulation issues could easily be checked.

They’d just add it to the fee. As it is, that is what you pay your solicitor for. The bank’s interest is the same as your interest. You can check yourself, but the indemnity policy route becomes a problem if you make direct contact with Building Control regarding the house. There are so many things to check, that’s why the while process exists. You can’t guess where the problem will be and try to choose where it belongs between the valuation and solicitor fees.

Have you actually spoken to the vendor about this? Why not see how far they got with the process? Many people don’t understand that they need to have the final inspection to get the certificate, or they put it off.

Some of the things you list would never attract any paperwork, so you need to be clear on exactly what does. Additional radiators don’t, boiler maintenance does not, internal doors do not, even the bathroom refurb may well not have anything certifiable carried out; it’s usually only electrics in there, but often not even that and that is not registered directly with BC either.

Also, if your vendor has extensively renovated and extended around the same time, then everything that is notifiable could come under that one Building Control application that has been lodged.

It would be very unusual to pay a fee to Building Control with no intention of ever having it signed off. If you’re avoiding BC, you’re avoiding them altogether and it makes sense not to even tell them! Planning is not a related department so there’s no automatic trigger to start the BC process.

The issue of the wider opening is not something that would stop people involving BC. It’s a completely typical feature of an extension, included in the fee. It doesn’t require any additional permissions.

You really need to speak to your vendor about inspections they’ve had as I think you’re conflating this into something massive. If you genuinely think that the quality of work is much higher than in other places you have seen, it probably is.

tygar2 · 18 December 2017 at 5:05PM

Doozergirl wrote: »

Have you actually spoken to the vendor about this? Why not see how far they got with the process? Many people don’t understand that they need to have the final inspection to get the certificate, or they put it off.

No I have not. The estate agent appears reluctant to allow direct communication and seems intent on being a go-between. I have previously requested the seller contact me direct but that never happened.I will try again.

Doozergirl wrote: »

Some of the things you list would never attract any paperwork, so you need to be clear on exactly what does. Additional radiators don’t, boiler maintenance does not, internal doors do not, even the bathroom refurb may well not have anything certifiable carried out; it’s usually only electrics in there, but often not even that and that is not registered directly with BC either.

Thanks, I am mainly concerned about electrics and gas. Zero documentation has been provided for this

Doozergirl wrote: »

Also, if your vendor has extensively renovated and extended around the same time, then everything that is notifiable could come under that one Building Control application that has been lodged.

That is why I am wondering why he will not just get the work signed off. None of the extensive work is backed up by anything.

Doozergirl wrote: »

It would be very unusual to pay a fee to Building Control with no intention of ever having it signed off. If you’re avoiding BC, you’re avoiding them altogether and it makes sense not to even tell them! Planning is not a related department so there’s no automatic trigger to start the BC process.

This is what is worrying me the most. Why not finish a process that has been started? What changed?

Doozergirl wrote: »

The issue of the wider opening is not something that would stop people involving BC. It’s a completely typical feature of an extension, included in the fee. It doesn’t require any additional permissions.

If that is the case then I really do not know why vendor is avoiding building control. I thought that might be it but if that is a non issue then I am truly baffled. The reluctance is a bit of a red flag.

Doozergirl wrote: »

You really need to speak to your vendor about inspections they’ve had as I think you’re conflating this into something massive. If you genuinely think that the quality of work is much higher than in other places you have seen, it probably is.

Thanks for that tip. I will request a discussion with the vendor. As it stands the only document I have is that of planning permission approval. Everything relating to construction methods, electrics, gas safety is backed up by nothing but the vendor's word. Zero other documentation has been provided.

I can understand how someone can forget to get a completion certificate. I called the local council building control today and the said that if someone wanted an inspection done they will do it the very next day hence my wonder as to why it is just not being done. This is easily solved.

My position now is that I will be satisfied if the house passes a Gas safety and electrical inspection in lieu of any records. I am happy to pay for the inspections. I will also require the Building Regs completion certificate for the extension or a reasonable explanation as this can easily be obtained if all is above board.

Am I expecting too much?

Butti · 18 December 2017 at 5:38PM

I am horrified. They can't take out load bearing walls with no certification and expect you to buy this property. I'd be running.

Thrugelmir · 18 December 2017 at 6:45PM

tygar2 wrote: »

No I have not. The estate agent appears reluctant to allow direct communication and seems intent on being a go-between. I have previously requested the seller contact me direct but that never happened.I will try again.

That could well be at the request of the vendor. Many people prefer to deal at arms length.

tygar2 · 18 December 2017 at 8:56PM

Hello all.

So...

Appears for some reason the vendors solicitors contacted the local BR office (and forwarded the response to my solicitor). My solicitor has responded by saying the indemnity insurance option is now off the table because they have put the council is now "on notice". I'm surprised they did this especially since they were pushing for the indemnity insurance angle....odd. Only option now seems to be a BR inspection. Whats more baffling is that the response they got is nothing different from what is anonymously accessible on the public planning portal - completion inspection was not undertaken hence no completion certificate. Apparently it is still possible for this to be done as it is still within time limits.

Does anyone know roughly how long it takes to be advised of the results after a visit by a BR inspector? I know they can turn up to inspect the day after booking (24hr notice) but cannot find out any information regarding the timeline for results. Is it on the spot or do they go away and compile some sort of response or report? If so, any idea how long this may take?

Also is it possible to exchange/complete on a house purchase on the condition that the vendor is liable for the results of an inspection and some funds are held back by my solicitor until the matter is settled?

On a side note, this whole indemnity insurance and building regs thing is a bit of a joke. Should the vendor decide to avoid this Building Control issue and put his property back on the market, I doubt he is any obligation to advise the next prospective buyer that his solicitors inadvertently put the council is "on notice" and that a indemnity policy is not an option. I doubt his solicitors would divulge that information either so the next buyer would be sold a house without the correct BR and an even more useless piece of paper.

Doozergirl · 18 December 2017 at 11:32PM

Step back here. You’re being given facts and yet you’re making assumptions, thinking the worst and actually, this is a good thing for you if the process is being re-started. Vendors aren’t allowed to lie on documents and the solicitor also knows the answers to those questions now, so there’s absolutey no reason for you to be so suspicious anout their motives with future buyers. They are doing the right thing here with you! I’m not sure why you’re allowing yourself to get so wound up about things that aren’t happening.

The Building Inspector will let the homeowner know immediately what they are looking for in order to be able to issue the certificate. Local Authorities sometimes take a little while to issue certificates but they will often push it through quickly if they understand the position and the request is polite.

You can’t exchange and complete without the certificate now if you need a mortgage.

If it is the gas and electric that worry you, then please know that those certificates will prove nothing. They are valid on the day of the test and no more.

It may well provide some peace of mind, but people are possibly wrong to feel that way as the absolute best way to know the current condition is to have your own electrical and gas checks carried out, just as you pay for your own buildings survey which gives a current report on the structural condition.

The absolute most important thing is current condition, not a report on a day 10 years ago.

No Building Regulation Completion Certificates - Any other options?

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