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Received Claim Form - Need help!!!

Grap3fruit
Posts: 23 Forumite
Hi all
The expected happened... CLAIM FORM! Just what I need as I am settling down as an unemployed university student...
I'll try and give as much detail as possible in bullet points:
A little background of what happened on the night:
The driver parked in a location that was shown by a friend a few times, a place by the river. The driver has always have parked in the same location: a small opening between two bushes. It is not a marked bay, although there are marked bays to the left and right (behind the bushes, not as though my car blocks any car coming in or out of the spaces. I will leave a Google maps view below). The vehicle was parked at the location for approximately 18 minutes, from 22:52 until 23:10.
The driver followed some bad advice for a while and ignored, got better advice, sent appeal etc... Lot's of scary looking debt collector and solicitor letters from Gladstones. LBC was dated 3rd July 2017. I responded to the LBC asking for photos and all evidence etc as advised, which they did send. Evidence is pretty against the driver.
The driver didn't see the sign. The driver had been there multiple times with friends with no issues so it didn't even cross their mind. The sign is fairly high on a lamppost and at that time of night there was literally no reason for the driver to look in that direction.
They have sufficient photographic evidence against the driver which I can upload if it makes it easier.
I've done the AOS online today and now need where to go from here... I really can't afford £250 as a 19 year old unemployed uni student and the whole idea of court is making me a nervous wreck!!!
Any help is really appreciated.
The expected happened... CLAIM FORM! Just what I need as I am settling down as an unemployed university student...
I'll try and give as much detail as possible in bullet points:
- Issued at 23:03 on 27/10/16
- Reason: Parked within a restricted area
- Original cost: 100
- Cost now with court: £245.32 (£170.32 parking charge, £25 court fee, £50 legal fee)
- Issue date: 15 sep 2017
- AOS date: 29/09/2017
- Claimant: Parking Control Management (UK) Limited
- Solicitors: Gladstones Solicitors
A little background of what happened on the night:
The driver parked in a location that was shown by a friend a few times, a place by the river. The driver has always have parked in the same location: a small opening between two bushes. It is not a marked bay, although there are marked bays to the left and right (behind the bushes, not as though my car blocks any car coming in or out of the spaces. I will leave a Google maps view below). The vehicle was parked at the location for approximately 18 minutes, from 22:52 until 23:10.
The driver followed some bad advice for a while and ignored, got better advice, sent appeal etc... Lot's of scary looking debt collector and solicitor letters from Gladstones. LBC was dated 3rd July 2017. I responded to the LBC asking for photos and all evidence etc as advised, which they did send. Evidence is pretty against the driver.
The driver didn't see the sign. The driver had been there multiple times with friends with no issues so it didn't even cross their mind. The sign is fairly high on a lamppost and at that time of night there was literally no reason for the driver to look in that direction.
They have sufficient photographic evidence against the driver which I can upload if it makes it easier.
I've done the AOS online today and now need where to go from here... I really can't afford £250 as a 19 year old unemployed uni student and the whole idea of court is making me a nervous wreck!!!
Any help is really appreciated.
0
Comments
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So why did you identify the driver in your post?
EDIT NOW. The driver is just that - "the driver".
And seriously chill about court. Its you, them and a judge ina suit. Normal looking office. really not that stressful.
You should have spotted the NEWBIES thread. You MUST have read this by now and you MUST use this to help you with your defence.
POFA compliance is one to look out for.0 -
I responded to the LBC asking for photos and all evidence etc as advised, which they did send. Evidence is pretty against me.
Let's look at some of the facts"I honestly didn't see the sign. I'd been there multiple times with friends with no issuesThe sign is fairly high on a lamppost and at that time of night there was literally no reason for me to look in that direction.
See VCS vs O'Connor:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/55305410 -
Evidence is pretty against me.
Nope, it's not, and we win over 99% of defended cases here.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Hi all.
Been looking into this over the past couple of days trying to work out my defence. I'm a bit lost, so I apologise for asking for more help.
I also made a mistake in my OP. The sign is not actually located on a high lamppost, but instead on a fairly low post (6ft or so) that does not have a light source near it and is facing perpendicular to the direction of my vehicle (it is 'in line' with the white parking lines)
I came across the following thread(sorry can't post links):
showthread.php?p=71597350
Specifically the following listed in that thread:
I didn't see the signs
I can't afford to pay
(POSSIBLY) Pre-action Protocols not followed
I just don't really know what leg I've got to stand on. It was dark, I had been there with friends 20 or so times before and so had no reason to be looking out for a sign. It was issued at 23:03 and was obviously pitch black outside. I have not visited that location in over a year now (it's in Greenhithe.. I'm in Bristol) and I'm an unemployed university student... I barely have enough money to buy food! The "pre-action protocols not followed" part was that I do not believe to have ever received any reply to my appeal, and on the back of the original ticket it states "All appeals received are responded to.". Really don't think much of this one but just a small thing I noticed that I thought was worth mentioning.
//EDIT:
Just realised something that may be some defence? One of the photos they took shows where my vehicle was parked, probably 5m or so from the car. However, the following points are what I have noticed that I could (maybe) use against them.- There is no nearby lightsource to light the sign (other than a lamppost that is a far direction away from the sign). The photographer has used their flash on their camera to make it look visible, clearly shown by the reflective lights on the car and the cars number plates (bright yellow plate / lights look like the are on). There is another photo provided by them from the other direction (taking a picture of the front of the car) that quite clearly shows just how dark it was behind the car (flashes can't shine through objects!!) but not sure how much this would stand legally.
- The sign appears to be bent inwards away from the facing direction of the car (only slightly) but possible may have been enough that the driver didn't see the sign? I can post the picture if needed. Just a shot!
Really quite nervous now about the entire ordeal - I just really can't see any defence for myself that is really unique to my case.
Any help is seriously appreciated.0 -
Grap3fruit wrote: »
//EDIT:
Just realised something that may be some defence? One of the photos they took shows where my vehicle was parked, probably 5m or so from the car. However, the following points are what I have noticed that I could (maybe) use against them.
[*]There is no nearby lightsource to light the sign (other than a lamppost that is a far direction away from the sign). The photographer has used their flash on their camera to make it look visible, clearly shown by the reflective lights on the car and the cars number plates (bright yellow plate / lights look like the are on). There is another photo provided by them from the other direction (taking a picture of the front of the car) that quite clearly shows just how dark it was behind the car (flashes can't shine through objects!!) but not sure how much this would stand legally.
[*]The sign appears to be bent inwards away from the facing direction of the car (only slightly) but possible may have been enough that the driver didn't see the sign? I can post the picture if needed. Just a shot!
That's a start. And that because no signs were visible, there was no contract formed. And that there was no evidence that the car was 'parked within a restricted area' (what markings?!).
All you need to do is add the above specifics into the body of a Gladstone defence you find about parking in a restricted area, such as one of the defences linked in the NEWBIES thread.
Never fear, put your thoughts together with an example Gladstones defence from here (there are shedloads); you don't even need to know how to search the forum as they hit you in the face on every page every day!
You could practically copy one and still beat Gladstones, look how USELESS they are:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=116126
Put these words into Google, now, and read the results to learn about what you are facing:
you've been gladstoned PCM
Do you get it?!! They are TERRIBLE!PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Hi!
Thanks for all your help thus far.
I have written the below defence from using examples found on the forum. Please let me know what you think of it. I need to hand this into the courts by Wednesday so want to have it sorted by tomorrow at latest.
FAO: CCBC
Claim No: XXXXXXXX
Issue Date: XX XX XX
Statement of Defence
I am X, the defendant in this matter. It is admitted that the Defendant was the authorised registered keeper of the vehicle in question at the time of the alleged incident. The Defendant denies liability for the entirety of the claim for the following reasons.
The particulars of claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached. Indeed the particulars of claim are not clear and concise as is required. The Claimants are known to be serial issuers of generic claims similar to this one. HM Courts Service have identified over 1000 similar sparse claims. I believe the term for such behaviour is ‘Roboclaims’ and as such is against the public interest.
On the 20th September 2016 another relevant poorly pleaded private parking charge claim by Gladstones was struck out by District Judge Cross of St Albans County Court without a hearing due to their ‘Roboclaim’ particulars being incoherent, failing to comply with CPR. 16.4 and ‘providing no facts that could give rise to any apparent claim in law.’
On the 27th July 2016 DJ Anson sitting at Preston County Court ruled that the very similar parking charge particulars of claim were efficient and failing to meet CPR 16.4 and PD 16 paragraphs 7.3 – 7.6. He ordered the Claimant in that case to file new particulars which they failed to do and so the court confirmed that the claim be struck out.
This has prejudiced the Defendant's chance to understand the cause of action in this case, and the Defendant can only surmise that it may relate to an unwarranted 'PCN' placed on the car in October 2016. On the basis of the above, I request the court strike out the claim for want of a cause of action.
Attempts were made to appeal the charge and the Defendant did not receive any documentation stating the outcome of the appeal. The Claimants reasoning for this case is being parked within a restricted area, however the Defendant believes that area did not provide sufficient light to be able to view the parking signs, and due to the fact that the Defendant had been to this location multiple times before, the Defendant would not have been looking for any signs relating to parking as he had no reason to believe it was regulated.
The angle at which the Defendants car was parked was perpendicular to the sign, as shown in the photographic evidence taken by the ticket officer at the time. This angle would have prevented the Defendant from viewing the sign and therefore the Claimant failed to provide a clear and visible sign.
The ticket was issued at 23:03 in the month of October, and in the month of October the time of sunset would have been approximately 5 hours before the ticket was issued. There is also no additional lighting provided by the sign that was closest to the driver, making it extremely difficult, if not impossible to see.
In the photographic evidence provided by the Claimant online, it is very apparent that the ticketing officer at the time had taken advantage of using flash photography and possibly changing the exposure of the photo to incorrectly show the amount of light provided in the area. This is evidenced by the fact that both the number plates (on two separate vehicles) and the taillights on the car in question appear to be reflecting a light source. Another photograph provided by the Claimant shows the front of the car, in which you can clearly see that no light source is provided in the area that the sign is located in. It also shows a more accurate representation of how dark the area is as the majority of the light from the flash of the camera is blocked by the vehicle in question.
The sign located near the Defendants car also appears to be bent in a direction that faces away from the driver’s view upon exiting the vehicle. This is also shown in the Claimants photographic evidence. Due to the lack of lighting and the fact the sign was bent, the Defendant does not believe that any contract would have been entered as the signage was not adequate, visible or clear. For the reasons listed above, the Defendant believes that contract was formed.
Even if the court finds that signs prohibiting parking were not perpendicular to the vehicle, it is confidently argued that these cannot have been prominent. Therefore, no contract has been formed. Even if the court finds there were prominent signs, the Defendant avers that a prohibition on parking cannot also be a contractual offer to do that which is forbidden, for a 'charge’.
Even if the court is minded to believe that this site could, in theory, charge money for an issue such as this one then in any case, this would be an issue falling only under the tort of trespass, a matter which remains in the gift of the landowner themselves only.
The Claimant has sent threatening and misleading demands which stated that further debt recovery action would be taken to recover what is owed by passing the debt to a recovery agent (which suggested to the Defendant they would be calling round like bailiffs) adding further unexplained charges with no evidence of how this extra charge has been calculated. No figure for additional charges was 'agreed' nor could it have formed part of the alleged 'contract' because no such indemnity costs were quantified on the signs.
I believe the facts stated in this defence are true.0 -
Hi all
Could someone let me know if the above defence is good enough to hand in? Any help is extremely appreciated.
Thank you in advance0 -
This has prejudiced the Defendant's chance to understand the cause of action in this case[STRIKE], and the Defendant can only surmise that it may relate to an unwarranted 'PCN' placed on the car in October 2016.[/STRIKE] On this basis [STRIKE]of the above[/STRIKE], I request the court strike out the claim for want of a cause of action.Attempts were made to appeal the charge and the Defendant did not receive any documentation stating the outcome of the appeal. The Claimants reasoning for this case is being parked within a restricted area, however the Defendant believes that area did not provide sufficient light to be able to view the parking signs, and due to the fact that the Defendant had been to this location multiple times before, the Defendant would not have been looking for any signs relating to parking as he had no reason to believe it was regulated.
"The defendant made a valid appeal to the initial PCN which should have resulted in the claimant cancelling charge and no further action being taken. No response to the appeal was received.
This is a clear failure by the claimant to engage with the defendant in order to understand the facts and narrow the issues. Such conduct is a breach of Practice Direction - Pre action conduct and protocols and has resulted in this unnecessary and unmeritorious litigation, which is an abuse of court process and against the public interest.
The claimant states that the vehicle in question was parked in a "restricted area". This is denied.
- The driver parked the vehicle during the hours of complete darkness and did not see any signs
- Even if any signs were present they were not illuminated meaning even if the driver did see them (which he/she did not) they would not have been able to read an unlit sign in full darkness
- a sign which cannot be seen or read by a consumer cannot form a contract. This is trite law and firmly established in the Consumer Rights Act 2015"
Remove all the stuff about the vehicle been 'perpendicular' - just say that the driver didn't see the signs
You say that the driver had parked there many time before - so had the PPC only recently taken over parking enforcement at the site?0 -
Thank you for your help.
I am actually not sure when the PPC took over enforcement, all I know is that the driver had parked at that location numerous times and never had any trouble until this ticket.
I have changed it to the following - does this defence now look ready?
FAO: CCBC
Claim No: XXXXXXXX
Issue Date: XX XX XX
Statement of Defence
I am X, the defendant in this matter. It is admitted that the Defendant was the authorised registered keeper of the vehicle in question at the time of the alleged incident. The Defendant denies liability for the entirety of the claim for the following reasons.
The particulars of claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached. Indeed the particulars of claim are not clear and concise as is required. The Claimants are known to be serial issuers of generic claims similar to this one. HM Courts Service have identified over 1000 similar sparse claims. I believe the term for such behaviour is ‘Roboclaims’ and as such is against the public interest.
On the 20th September 2016 another relevant poorly pleaded private parking charge claim by Gladstones was struck out by District Judge Cross of St Albans County Court without a hearing due to their ‘Roboclaim’ particulars being incoherent, failing to comply with CPR. 16.4 and ‘providing no facts that could give rise to any apparent claim in law.’
On the 27th July 2016 DJ Anson sitting at Preston County Court ruled that the very similar parking charge particulars of claim were efficient and failing to meet CPR 16.4 and PD 16 paragraphs 7.3 – 7.6. He ordered the Claimant in that case to file new particulars which they failed to do and so the court confirmed that the claim be struck out.
This has prejudiced the Defendant's chance to understand the cause of action in this case. On this basis, I request the court strike out the claim for want of a cause of action.
The defendant made a valid appeal to the initial PCN which should have resulted in the claimant cancelling charge and no further action being taken. No response to the appeal was received.
This is a clear failure by the claimant to engage with the defendant in order to understand the facts and narrow the issues. Such conduct is a breach of Practice Direction - Pre action conduct and protocols and has resulted in this unnecessary and unmeritorious litigation, which is an abuse of court process and against the public interest.
The claimant states that the vehicle in question was parked in a "restricted area". This is denied.
- The driver parked the vehicle during the hours of complete darkness and did not see any signs
- Even if any signs were present they were not illuminated meaning even if the driver did see them (which he/she did not) they would not have been able to read an unlit sign in full darkness
- a sign which cannot be seen or read by a consumer cannot form a contract. This is trite law and firmly established in the Consumer Rights Act 2015
The ticket was issued at 23:03 in the month of October, and in the month of October the time of sunset would have been approximately 5 hours before the ticket was issued. There is also no additional lighting provided by the sign that was closest to the driver, making it extremely difficult, if not impossible to see.
In the photographic evidence provided by the Claimant online, it is very apparent that the ticketing officer at the time had taken advantage of using flash photography and possibly changing the exposure of the photo to incorrectly show the amount of light provided in the area. This is evidenced by the fact that both the number plates (on two separate vehicles) and the taillights on the car in question appear to be reflecting a light source. Another photograph provided by the Claimant shows the front of the car, in which you can clearly see that no light source is provided in the area that the sign is located in. It also shows a more accurate representation of how dark the area is as the majority of the light from the flash of the camera is blocked by the vehicle in question.
The sign located near the Defendants car also appears to be bent in a direction that faces away from the driver’s view upon exiting the vehicle. This is also shown in the Claimants photographic evidence. Due to the lack of lighting and the fact the sign was bent, the Defendant does not believe that any contract would have been entered as the signage was not adequate, visible or clear. For the reasons listed above, the Defendant believes that contract was formed.
Even if the court finds that signs prohibiting parking were not perpendicular to the vehicle, it is confidently argued that these cannot have been prominent. Therefore, no contract has been formed. Even if the court finds there were prominent signs, the Defendant avers that a prohibition on parking cannot also be a contractual offer to do that which is forbidden, for a 'charge’.
Even if the court is minded to believe that this site could, in theory, charge money for an issue such as this one then in any case, this would be an issue falling only under the tort of trespass, a matter which remains in the gift of the landowner themselves only.
The Claimant has sent threatening and misleading demands which stated that further debt recovery action would be taken to recover what is owed by passing the debt to a recovery agent (which suggested to the Defendant they would be calling round like bailiffs) adding further unexplained charges with no evidence of how this extra charge has been calculated. No figure for additional charges was 'agreed' nor could it have formed part of the alleged 'contract' because no such indemnity costs were quantified on the signs.
I believe the facts stated in this defence are true.0 -
Hi
Could someone please advise if I can hand in the defence? I wish to do this today.
Thanks0
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