Euro car park letter - 1st appeal rejected, any advice?

Greg1508 · 28 June 2016 at 2:41PM

Hello, hope you can help. Last month I parked at a Euro Car Park in Manchester, I paid £5.50 in cash for an "up to 12 hour stay", it was one of those machines where you have to input your car reg and the ticket then states your reg number. I put the ticket on my dashboard, clearly visible, it's the same place I always put it. I came back a couple of hours later, and drove him. I didn't keep the ticket as I never do.

Around two weeks later, I received a letter from ECP, with a penalty charge notice for £100, reduced to £60 if I paid within 14 days! The letter said I hadn't paid for parking, and they put two ANPR images of my reg plate on the letter, but not a picture of my car windscreen. Anyway I immediately appealed on their website stating my case, I didn't do any research, i.e. template letter, I just said that I paid and displayed, that I paid £5.50 in cash, asked them to check the CCTV.

Yesterday I received another letter, saying my appeal has been dismissed, they sent a list of the transactions paid on the machine around the time I paid and my payment and reg number wasn't on the list. Completely baffling. They also sent an image of the signage at the car park. The letter has a POPLA number and says I can appeal, but if I appeal and am unsuccessful I will have to pay the full £100.

I have no evidence that I paid, but I did, and I want to appeal to POPLA. Do I have any chance of winning?

I've read some threads but haven't seen anything that fits my criteria. I'm also now thinking I shouldn't have immediately appealed to them without doing my research first.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated :beer:

Redx · 28 June 2016 at 3:04PM

if its anpr there wont be any windscreen ticket, nor will there be any cctv either so they cannot check cctv if there isnt any

as for popla, just use recent popla appeals and draft your own , especially if you did not reveal who the driver was (POFA2012 cannot apply if they failed to follow it) - all the usual popla appeal arguments will apply

in future KEEP your paid for ticket as this is what validates your contract and is proof of contract to park (everyone should do this) , the circumstances would not be baffling if you had a ticket so you could check the VRM you put into the machine

maybe you made a mistake when putting in the VRM , who knows ? but you have no ticket so cannot check this and in any case having a valid ticket is no proof at popla anyway

so look at any recent 2016 popla appeals and draft one up, then post it for critique, minus personal details

Fruitcake · 28 June 2016 at 3:06PM

It's a shame you appealed instead of doing your research as you have probably given away the driver's details and thus thrown away a valuable appeal point.

All is not lost though.

Please read the Sticky thread for NEWBIES to see how the system works, then create a PoPLA appeal using the best points available from the latest successful appeals in the POPLA Decisions sticky thread.

Post your draft appeal here for the regulars to look at before submitting it.

Greg1508 · 28 June 2016 at 8:18PM

Thanks but I really have no idea where to start on that "popla decisions" thread, isn't there a standard ECP template that I can send to POPLA?

Redx · 28 June 2016 at 8:33PM

no , there have never been any popla templates as each case is bespoke and so you have to cull aspects from other previous appeals and work up your own

the forum search box and suitable search words will help you find recent 2016 popla appeals you can crib from , especially as there have been hundreds or thousands over the last few years (but only look at 2016 ones for your own appeal)

if you do the work , people will help you

Greg1508 · 28 June 2016 at 8:34PM

When I appealed on the ECP website, I stated that I paid for the ticket, but didn't state I was the driver?

Redx · 28 June 2016 at 8:50PM

so add POFA 2012 and any NTK flaws into your appeal as KEEPER , PLUS ALL THE USUAL POPLA ARGUMENTS AS WELL

if you find any ECP or NCP popla appeals from 2016 , use those to draft your own appeal , if not , find recent appeals for UKPC and CEL etc and adapt them

in post #1 you made the clssic mistakes of using the words "me , myself and I,

I parked , penalty notice , all should not be used

its a parking charge notice , not a penalty , its actually an INVOICE

So in your popla appeal , use the correct terminology, mentioning THE DRIVER and parking charge etc

this thread is also ECP, where they were given similar advice, there are plenty more if you look

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5463712

Coupon-mad · 28 June 2016 at 10:44PM

Greg1508 wrote: »

When I appealed on the ECP website, I stated that I paid for the ticket, but didn't state I was the driver?

How about reading the other two Euro Car parks threads from today which are talking about POPLA appeals, for a start? They are here under your nose, discussing what you are asking. I already pointed out to one of them to read the other one.

Why don't people just search for the key words 'Euro POPLA' if they have a Euro car parks PCN they want to take to POPLA, seems the obvious thing...if it was Smart Parking you'd search 'Smart POPLA' etc., etc. to find threads of people who've just been there done that and won.

If you only said you 'paid for the ticket' you could get round the driver thing by saying 'we' in the POPLA appeal to muddy the waters. And - as long as you didn't choose 'driver' in the drop-down menu when you did the ECP online appeal(?!!) you can use the 'no keeper liability' and 'no driver liability' appeal points along with the rest that you will find easily when you search. Only read 2016 threads. Nothing older.

Greg1508 · 29 June 2016 at 8:00AM

I'm almost certain I clicked 'driver' on the online appeal. So which arguments will I now be unable to use?

Umkomaas · 29 June 2016 at 8:16AM

Greg1508 wrote: »

I'm almost certain I clicked 'driver' on the online appeal. So which arguments will I now be unable to use?

Anything that says 'registered keeper'.

Coupon-mad · 29 June 2016 at 12:52PM

Greg1508 wrote: »

I'm almost certain I clicked 'driver' on the online appeal. So which arguments will I now be unable to use?

It will leave you 'no evidence of non-pay and display' (and you can explain that you did pay) also 'the charge is a penalty, not saved by ParkingEye v Beavis' and (ALWAYS) 'unclear signs' with the £100 charge in small print, high up, far too tiny font to read & form a contract to pay and not mentioned on the tariff sign (if true).

Also you must argue 'no landowner authority' but even if you lose it doesn't matter because this is Euro Car parks. You do not 'have to pay' 10p let alone £100! I've ignored them myself before POPLA existed. They send silly debt collector demands then they go away.

You'll see those points in any POPLA appeal written in March, April or May about ECP. Except the first point I mentioned (evidence) but that's an important one, to force ECP to evidence the lack of payment as it makes no sense. Their sheet doesn't evidence you didn't pay does it? Is the sheet even headed up with the date AND location AND time?

You don't have two cars and put in the wrong VRN did you? Just asking (that won't win it at POPLA but might be why it occurred). You say: ''they sent a list of the transactions paid on the machine around the time I paid and my payment and reg number wasn't on the list. Completely baffling.'' So have a closer look. Is there a familiar partial VRN shown at that time or a blank VRN (if the keypad malfunctioned)?

Euro car park letter - 1st appeal rejected, any advice?

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