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UKCPS Reading

Hello all,

I have been instructed to start a new thread to help with my decision.

The registered keeper has received a PCN letter from UKCPS asking for £100 pounds as the reduced charge of £60 has not been paid? (this is the first correspondence received ....no screen ticket) for DRIVER - PASSENGERS OBSERVED LEAVING SITE....No photographic evidence was sent.

This is a free to park for three hours retail park site, the vehicle was parked for less than 45 mins at a very empty weekday lunchtime....the driver did leave the site on foot but the passenger was dropped off earlier at the retail park entrance and was indeed browsing in the shops..I was unaware I was a prisoner to the retail park as I had other shops to visit?

I have read the Newbies section carefully and have a first appeal letter ready to post....is this still the correct advice?



Many thanks and apologies if I have posted incorrectly. :)
«1

Comments

  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    Have a look at their entrance sign. I have used that car park twice in the last fortnight. On both occasions that sign was facing away from the entrance.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    the NEWBIES sticky thread is most definitely the latest and best advice on the interweb , bar none

    yes, send the template letter "as is"

    treat this latest letter as the NTK, hence the appeal using the template letter

    if they provide a popla code and wont cancel, take it to popla with our help here on the forum, especially using post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread

    and get some photo evidence as the last reply stated
  • HELLANDBACK
    HELLANDBACK Posts: 9 Forumite
    edited 13 August 2014 at 2:05PM
    Ok thank you both, I believe you are correct that the sign does face away especially where the vehicle was parked.

    Do I need photographic evidence to send with the first appeal letter?

    Here is the first appeal I am sending:


    [FONT=&quot]Dear UKCPS Car Parking Solutions,

    PCN number 123456
    As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

    1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner.
    2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract.
    3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass.

    Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:

    - the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.

    - if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

    - if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.

    - if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).

    Take formal note:

    (a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.

    (b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.

    (c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.

    By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.

    Yours, [/FONT]

    I have edited the ATA to BPA in this case is this ok???

    Thanks again.
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    you save your ammunition for the main battle m8 (popla) , signage , whatever

    in this case I can think of nothing you should send to UKCPS apart from the template letter

    and as they are a member of the BPA, the BPA is fine
  • Many thanks Redx for your rapid reply...........I will get myself to the post office and ask for a postal reciept......should I have dated the above letter or is that insignificant?
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    obviously you date the letter, VRN number , squiggle a signature, put the pcn number on it etc (anything relevant)

    then post at P.O. with free certificate of posting (not recorded)
  • Guys_Dad
    Guys_Dad Posts: 11,025 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    I would appeal to the PPC saying exactly what happened. The purpose of the trip was to shop and there were two people in the car that day.

    The first went shopping, the second went off site.

    Please provide photographic evidence. I don't suppose shopper had any receipts retained.

    Also, date of contravention and date of NtK, please.
  • Thanks again Redx.............. letter updated as suggested and posted, wish me luck and I will update when I have a reply.

    I will obtain photos of the signage but have no receipts from the day as no actual purchases were made. Should I begin planning for the worst and get a popla response ready anyway?
  • Guys_Dad
    Guys_Dad Posts: 11,025 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Wait for their reply, particularly when you tell them the full facts and ask for photographic evidence.
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    no harm in starting to prepare for a popla appeal, but dont spend too much time on it until you get their reply , but getting signage photos is an excellent idea, ideally at the same time of day as before
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