IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including QR codes, number plates and reference numbers.
🗳️ ELECTION 2024: THE MSE LEADERS' DEBATE Got a burning question you want us to ask the party leaders ahead of the general election? Post them on our dedicated Forum board where you can see and upvote other users' questions, or submit your suggestions via this form. Please note that the Forum's rules on avoiding general political discussion still apply across all boards.
Mitigation
Options
da_rule
Posts: 3,618 Forumite
There has been a recent influx of people struggling to understand that POPLA and the IAS will NOT consider mitigation as part of an appeal. As such, I thought it might be a good idea to put a thread up just highlighting how important it is that people understand the difference between arguments based on mitigation and on law.
POPLA and the IAS will not consider mitigation, this means that they are NOT INTERESTED in:
This is not an exclusive list by any means. What this essentially means is that POPLA/the IAS are not interested in anything which you think makes your case unique.
What POPLA and the IAS are interested in is legal arguments, as set out in the templates, most notably the lack of a genuine pre-estimate of loss, authority to levy a charge etc.
An appeal to POPLA or the IAS based on mitigation WILL fail, it has happened. They are not interested in 'fairness', they only care about the law.
Obviously there may be occasions where details about having purchased a pay and display ticket may be included to back up the point that no loss has been suffered, but this should not form the sole argument.
Mitigation, along with the other points of appeal can be used when appealing to the parking company. Some of whom have relatively good track records of cancelling PCN's when there is genuine mitigation, especially if you can prove you were a customer of one of the businesses on the site.
POPLA and the IAS will not consider mitigation, this means that they are NOT INTERESTED in:
- The fact that you had purchased a ticket; or
- The ticket/permit blew off of the dashboard/slipped out of view; or
- The fact that did not/forgot to display a valid permit (and potentially disabled blue badge); or
- The fact that you only overstayed for a few minutes; or
- The fact that you entered the wrong registration number into the pay and display machine; or
- A fault with any payment machine/telephone service; or
- The weather conditions; or
- Whether you were a customer; or
- Whether you realised that you couldn't park there etc
This is not an exclusive list by any means. What this essentially means is that POPLA/the IAS are not interested in anything which you think makes your case unique.
What POPLA and the IAS are interested in is legal arguments, as set out in the templates, most notably the lack of a genuine pre-estimate of loss, authority to levy a charge etc.
An appeal to POPLA or the IAS based on mitigation WILL fail, it has happened. They are not interested in 'fairness', they only care about the law.
Obviously there may be occasions where details about having purchased a pay and display ticket may be included to back up the point that no loss has been suffered, but this should not form the sole argument.
Mitigation, along with the other points of appeal can be used when appealing to the parking company. Some of whom have relatively good track records of cancelling PCN's when there is genuine mitigation, especially if you can prove you were a customer of one of the businesses on the site.
0
Comments
-
All summed up by what we've often said here:
It's nothing to do with what you did or didn't do on the day. Any appeal is based purely on legal points and what the PPC have or have not done (poor signage being an example of the latter).0 -
The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »All summed up by what we've often said here:
It's nothing to do with what you did or didn't do on the day. Any appeal is based purely on legal points and what the PPC have or have not done (poor signage being an example of the latter).
Agreed. But there seem to have been a lot of posts recently along the lines of "I can't find something that exactly matches my situation" or "it was dark so I felt unsafe" etc.0 -
What is mitigation precisely?
Is difficulty in finding a place to park mitigation? Is a queue to leave the site mitigation, is the vehicle breaking down? What about a faulty P&D machines, inaccurate ANPR cameras? Failure to mitigate loss, (Ibbottson), failure to display a permit on one's own land.
In all of these cases a judge has found for the appellant. Are they ultra vires?You never know how far you can go until you go too far.0 -
What is mitigation precisely?
Is difficulty in finding a place to park mitigation? Is a queue to leave the site mitigation, is the vehicle breaking down? What about a faulty P&D machines, inaccurate ANPR cameras? Failure to mitigate loss, (Ibbottson), failure to display a permit on one's own land.
In all of these cases a judge has found for the appellant. Are they ultra vires?
This appears to be where there is a difference between POPLA and the courts. The courts will (and do) look at mitigation. POPLA however, for what ever reason, choose not to.
The argument about looking for a space not being parking etc was only a hypothetical argument at POPLA until the court decision that set out that it could not be considered 'parking'. That kind of moved it from the field of mitigation into the field of a legal argument. POPLA have not done the same however with issues such as a pay and display ticket blowing out of the windscreen.0 -
Mitigation is "the action of reducing the severity, seriousness, or painfulness of something". Mitigation doesn't eliminate the act, it only reduces it. Example 1: the driver broke the rules but didn't break them very much. Example 2: the driver broke the rules but didn't mean to break them, it was a genuine mistake. POPLA won't uphold appeals in these circumstances, as the act of breaking the rules still occured.
POPLA will only uphold your appeal if either:
1) The driver didn't break the rules (I was only there one hour not 5 hours as claimed - the ANPR missed my leaving and coming back on the same day); or
2) The operator did break the rules (tried to charge in excess of GPEOL for example, or failed to send me my notice in time).
If the Operator is just one day late in sending the NTK, then we ( the drivers and keepers) call it out and say it has to be withdrawn. The Operators do the same thing to us - we are a minute over, they call us out on breach of contract or ask us to pay a contractual sum. Did the operator intend to send the notice out late? No. Perhaps someone in the office was sick - mitigating circumstance yes, but we don't give them an extension.New members, please refer to "sticky" threads that are alwasys "stuck" at the top of this forum0 -
da-rule can you add these to post #1 ?
"My ticket /permit must have blown off the dashboard when I shut the door"
" I forgot to display my Blue badge/Parking Permit"
These are common cases.0 -
I have added a link here on the NEWBIES thread to try to get some people to see it!PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
da-rule can you add these to post #1 ?
"My ticket /permit must have blown off the dashboard when I shut the door"
" I forgot to display my Blue badge/Parking Permit"
These are common cases.
Done.Coupon-mad wrote: »I have added a link here on the NEWBIES thread to try to get some people to see it!
Here's hoping.0 -
Sorry if the answer is already here but have been searching and don't know how to proceed.
A few months back my daughter got a PCN for overstaying in an Excel car park in Manchester. She did make representations but got a reply to say they were not accepted. I told her not to pay it as I had never paid a parking charge a couple of years ago and heard nothing after a few letters. I did not know the process had changed. She has now had a letter for Newlyn stating they have been appointed as debt collectors and she now owes £166. She has written a letter to them to say the debt is denied but doesn't know what to do next. Can you offer some advise please?0 -
Advice:
Start your own thread
Read the newbie thread which is the sticky at the top of this forum where debt collector letters are covered in detail in post 4.Newbie thread: go to the top of this page and find these words: Main site > MoneySavingExpert.com Forums > Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking. Click on words Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking. Newbie thread is the first post. Blue New Thread button is just above it to left.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 11 Election 2024: The MSE Leaders' Debate
- 343.9K Banking & Borrowing
- 250.3K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 450K Spending & Discounts
- 236.1K Work, Benefits & Business
- 609.3K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 173.4K Life & Family
- 248.7K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards