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  • FIRST POST
    • dvdrdl
    • By dvdrdl 12th Jun 13, 8:51 AM
    • 102Posts
    • 33Thanks
    dvdrdl
    National Locksmith Call Centres
    • #1
    • 12th Jun 13, 8:51 AM
    National Locksmith Call Centres 12th Jun 13 at 8:51 AM
    An elderly relative of mine was recently, in my opinion completely ripped off by a company advertising on yell.com as a local locksmith.

    She was charged 350 plus VAT to drill open the lock on her wooden front door which I know to be an old 3 lever deadlock as I fitted it!!!

    When i heard i began to chase up the company to try and get a breakdown of these costs since it was enither out of hours, a weekend or any other inconvenient time.

    Anyhow We failed to get in touch again and eecided to try and find the place. We found a locksmith in the same street and after a good talk discovered he was nothing to do with the company but they were advertising using a fake address in his street.

    Aparently this is common practice for national advertisers to create false addresses and publish them on yell.com

    Firstly why the hell are yell/hibu allowing this to happen!? These are paid adverts and surely they know exactly whats happening when a company appears to have hundreds of locations around the country!

    Really !!!!ed off that this can happen. I will refrain from naming said company until I have concluded my investigation as I will be pursuing this through court if need be. It is down right crafty and intentionally misleading.

    Found an article online about these dodgy call centers http://www.locksmith-directory.org.uk/nationals-article.html
    It seems they are easy to spot when you know what to look for and may be worth taking note of.
    I would imagine the same problem exists within all the emrgency trades judging by the tactics they use preying on the vulnerable.

    Sorry for ranting had to get it off my chest.
Page 1
    • Myser
    • By Myser 12th Jun 13, 11:53 AM
    • 1,740 Posts
    • 870 Thanks
    Myser
    • #2
    • 12th Jun 13, 11:53 AM
    Directories
    • #2
    • 12th Jun 13, 11:53 AM
    If you find a company or tradesperson through a directory, expect to pay a huge amount. The companies advertising as offering a national service are usually very expensive and often don't always provide the best service.

    Companies offering an emergency service know that people are desperate and will always charge an exorbitant amount.

    Good luck tracking down the company/one-man-band! Have you tried contacting Yell/hibu?
    If my post hasn't helped you, then don't click the 'Thanks' button!
  • spacey2012
    • #3
    • 12th Jun 13, 11:57 AM
    • #3
    • 12th Jun 13, 11:57 AM
    Drilled ?
    They were no locksmith.
    A good locksmith can open a 3 lever lock faster than you can with the right key.
    Be happy...
    • dvdrdl
    • By dvdrdl 12th Jun 13, 12:49 PM
    • 102 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    dvdrdl
    • #4
    • 12th Jun 13, 12:49 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Jun 13, 12:49 PM
    Drilled ?
    They were no locksmith.
    A good locksmith can open a 3 lever lock faster than you can with the right key.
    Originally posted by spacey2012
    Exactly, i could have opened it myself had i been around at the time.

    Yell have since removed the listing but the point is that it shouldnt have been there in the first place if it were not genuine.

    This guy resolved our problem, nice chap, http://www.locksmith-walsall.com
    Last edited by dvdrdl; 31-08-2013 at 9:08 AM.
  • MathewJ
    • #5
    • 26th Jun 13, 11:53 PM
    • #5
    • 26th Jun 13, 11:53 PM
    An elderly relative of mine was recently, in my opinion completely ripped off by a company advertising on yell.com as a local locksmith.

    She was charged 350 plus VAT to drill open the lock on her wooden front door which I know to be an old 3 lever deadlock as I fitted it!!!

    When i heard i began to chase up the company to try and get a breakdown of these costs since it was enither out of hours, a weekend or any other inconvenient time.

    Anyhow We failed to get in touch again and eecided to try and find the place. We found a locksmith in the same street and after a good talk discovered he was nothing to do with the company but they were advertising using a fake address in his street.

    Aparently this is common practice for national advertisers to create false addresses and publish them on yell.com

    Firstly why the hell are yell/hibu allowing this to happen!? These are paid adverts and surely they know exactly whats happening when a company appears to have hundreds of locations around the country!

    Really !!!!ed off that this can happen. I will refrain from naming said company until I have concluded my investigation as I will be pursuing this through court if need be. It is down right crafty and intentionally misleading.

    Found an article online about these dodgy call centers http://www.locksmith-directory.org.uk/nationals-article.html
    It seems they are easy to spot when you know what to look for and may be worth taking note of.
    I would imagine the same problem exists within all the emrgency trades judging by the tactics they use preying on the vulnerable.

    Sorry for ranting had to get it off my chest.
    Originally posted by dvdrdl
    Thing is - you just boosted their ranking in Google, good or bad...

    It amazes me that people buy locks and padlocks from Ebay traders - errm they know where you live and they can copy your keys before sending....

    Master locksmiths are not that expensive - and you get a registered license on the invoice, recourse if it goes tits up.

    Consumers make a lot of noise about gas registered, corgi etc - but they dont seem to care about who has the keys to your front door?
    If you stay loyal all the time, you get treated like a dog.
    • ilikewatch
    • By ilikewatch 27th Jun 13, 7:43 AM
    • 1,044 Posts
    • 1,237 Thanks
    ilikewatch
    • #6
    • 27th Jun 13, 7:43 AM
    • #6
    • 27th Jun 13, 7:43 AM
    Consumers make a lot of noise about gas registered, corgi etc - but they dont seem to care about who has the keys to your front door?
    Originally posted by MathewJ
    If someone breaks into my house and steals my stuff I'm insured. As soon as someone starts selling insurance that will bring me/my family back to life after carbon monoxide poisoning I'll stop being so particular about using Gas Safe tradesmen.
    • al69
    • By al69 27th Jun 13, 10:34 AM
    • 65 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    al69
    • #7
    • 27th Jun 13, 10:34 AM
    • #7
    • 27th Jun 13, 10:34 AM
    This is very important as i used to be an ex locksmith did the company involved get the person to sign to waive her right to the 7 day cooling off period.Were they even given the 7 day cooling off period in writing to keep ?

    www .gov.uk/doorstep-selling-regulations

    This is a very powerful bit of legislation and trading standards will take up the case on your behalf to pursue to culprits.

    if you didnt get the cooling off period in writing then THEY HAVE BROKEN THE LAW.

    When this legislation first came out it caught a lot of us out but most of the legit operators soon got their act together and their paperwork in order to comply.The rogue traders havent because they think they are untouchable.

    Using fake addresses to lure a consumer into making a decision on using that service also falls foul of the consumer protection regs ie the bit about misleading customers into making a choice.

    www .oft.gov.uk/713560/publications/guidance/cprregs/#.UcwGftgyGSp


    Go legal on them as they are pure scum and deserve everything they get.They are the reason many skilled independent locksmiths have left the trade myself included.

    Pm me if you would like some more specific info about the culprits i may know of them but i can guarantee i can find out about them as i have a lot of trade contacts who will know.

    I would love to help as i have a real issue with how these companies operate.
    Last edited by al69; 27-06-2013 at 10:37 AM. Reason: Added to post
    • al69
    • By al69 27th Jun 13, 10:45 AM
    • 65 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    al69
    • #8
    • 27th Jun 13, 10:45 AM
    • #8
    • 27th Jun 13, 10:45 AM
    Thing is - you just boosted their ranking in Google, good or bad...

    It amazes me that people buy locks and padlocks from Ebay traders - errm they know where you live and they can copy your keys before sending....

    Master locksmiths are not that expensive - and you get a registered license on the invoice, recourse if it goes tits up.

    Consumers make a lot of noise about gas registered, corgi etc - but they dont seem to care about who has the keys to your front door?
    Originally posted by MathewJ
    Their is no licensing in the uk for locksmiths its a myth.The master locksmith association is something you pay to join there are plenty of skilled loocksmiths who choose not to be members of it.

    As for ebay and locks, im sorry but what a load of tosh.
    Do you honestly think thats how thieves operate ? ok im a thief i sell a lock i have a key to on ebay.I go around and burgle the house with no signs of forced entry.The police ask where the lock was bought from then go to the sellers house to ask where they were that day.

    The only way to beat burglars is to create layers of security to create more time for them to get in.

    Good locks,alarm,cctv (optional but useful) and a decent safe.Hide all car keys at night,fully lock up and arm the alarm EVERY time you go out or go to bed.

    Its not hard but too many people are lazy and dont fully lock up especially upvc doors a common point of entry.I could get in a non fully locked up upvc door in seconds so can a thief.
    • muckybutt
    • By muckybutt 27th Jun 13, 12:32 PM
    • 3,618 Posts
    • 3,419 Thanks
    muckybutt
    • #9
    • 27th Jun 13, 12:32 PM
    • #9
    • 27th Jun 13, 12:32 PM
    Interesting read from you al69, i'm currently thinking about a career change and getting into lock smithing.
    I often have to change locks and install the digi locks at work at the moment and its kinda given me the bug to take things further.

    Be nice to know locks inside out so to speak and learn about nde techniques.

    Any pointers ?
    You may click thanks if you found my advice useful
  • MathewJ
    Their is no licensing in the uk for locksmiths its a myth.The master locksmith association is something you pay to join there are plenty of skilled loocksmiths who choose not to be members of it.

    As for ebay and locks, im sorry but what a load of tosh.
    Do you honestly think thats how thieves operate ? ok im a thief i sell a lock i have a key to on ebay.I go around and burgle the house with no signs of forced entry.The police ask where the lock was bought from then go to the sellers house to ask where they were that day.

    The only way to beat burglars is to create layers of security to create more time for them to get in.

    Good locks,alarm,cctv (optional but useful) and a decent safe.Hide all car keys at night,fully lock up and arm the alarm EVERY time you go out or go to bed.

    Its not hard but too many people are lazy and dont fully lock up especially upvc doors a common point of entry.I could get in a non fully locked up upvc door in seconds so can a thief.
    Originally posted by al69
    Fortunately the general public seem to appreciate the Master locksmiths association MLA is NOT a 'pay as you go' membership - just the same as GAS / old Corgi registration - you have to complete the training and be accountable for fire regulations, master key design and be vetted for security / registered key keeping.

    There are no 'good locksmiths' who 'choose' not to be in the MLA - just those who have not been trained or those that are not up to our standards.

    The legal requirements mean nothing - but having a respected industry body to control standards is much better than saying 'hey I'm a good locksmith cos I stack shelves as Tesco's Mon-Fri'... Really? You know about BS fire regs on locks/doors? You are authorised to design and manage master key systems for schools, hotels etc? Errrm No you are not - you are just another 'pretend locksmith' who charges your 'mates' 150 for a 4 cylinder that is made of cheese from China.

    And for the original poster - I worked for Yell for over 20 years as a National Account Manager (so maybe I know more than most here, who are happy to help)
    HIBU/Yell what was Yellow pages are a advertising / publisher / media - they will sell listings online or in their directories to anyone at 'face value' IE they take everyones order in good will.
    HIBU will offer nothing to you as a consumer who got ripped off by one of their advertisers, as they are 'just the messenger'.
    HIBU/Yell offer no validation, guarantees or endorse any content they publish - everything is taken in spirit, and money is exchanged.
    You as the consumer have no recourse with the publisher - HIBU/Yell/Google etc.
    So my point above this makes more sense - choose someone with something to lose and a history longer than 5 minutes...
    'Lots of good locksmiths' blah blah - really? Are you registered on a national database? Are you insured? Are you trained? Are you vetted? Can you open a safe? Can you cut and re-program car keys for 95% of the cars in the UK?
    We don't charge 350 for a euro lock change or to open a 3 lever lock - we charge 102 and for neighbourhood watch customers we do it for 78 - this includes measuring and fitting a new lock that's well beyond any current insurance standards.
    Last edited by MathewJ; 29-06-2013 at 9:20 PM.
    If you stay loyal all the time, you get treated like a dog.
  • MathewJ
    I could get in a non fully locked up upvc door in seconds so can a thief.
    Originally posted by al69
    This made me giggle sorry - but a 3 year old can pull the handle and open a non locked door..

    If you are talking about snapping a locked euro cylinder then I can challenge you to break into my home with 3 star cylinders - and we will video you failing to even get close to entering my house.
    But as a Pro Locksmith I'm sure you can do it...... it takes us 14 drill bits and we know exactly where to drill as we make these locks from scratch. (not from B&Q or Asda)
    If you stay loyal all the time, you get treated like a dog.
    • al69
    • By al69 1st Jul 13, 5:24 PM
    • 65 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    al69
    Mathew j you really need to take a chill pill and reread my post.

    Its not a legal requirement to be part of the mla and i know several very good locksmiths who arent members.You may find that hard to believe but i know those who know these people would agree also, people you will most unlikely to meet but if you did you would come away amazed at their ability.

    Im now not a locksmith but when i was i made sure everything was done correctly,if i didnt how come im aware of the regulations i linked to ?

    You know as well as i do the weakness of upvc doors in general so maybe i should i have been a little more precise with my use of words.My error im sorry.

    Instead of ranting at myself when i offered very good useful advice why didnt you offer the same advice earlier in the thread when you posted ?

    Lastly anyone with knowledge knows why use a drill bit when something else will do the job a lot better ? i wont post it here as i dont want it a 101 for thieves but ive overcome every lock ive come up against using this as a last resort, brilliant on failed locks and worked everytime.

    Im no longer in the trade because its swamped with part timers,call centers and cowboys etc.I now get paid holidays,sick pay and a pension as an employee so happy with my lot.

    I wish you well in the trade, but please chill im on your side and can cut a 110 key by hand
  • MathewJ
    Mathew j you really need to take a chill pill and reread my post.

    Its not a legal requirement to be part of the mla and i know several very good locksmiths who arent members.You may find that hard to believe but i know those who know these people would agree also, people you will most unlikely to meet but if you did you would come away amazed at their ability.

    Im now not a locksmith but when i was i made sure everything was done correctly,if i didnt how come im aware of the regulations i linked to ?

    You know as well as i do the weakness of upvc doors in general so maybe i should i have been a little more precise with my use of words.My error im sorry.

    Instead of ranting at myself when i offered very good useful advice why didnt you offer the same advice earlier in the thread when you posted ?

    Lastly anyone with knowledge knows why use a drill bit when something else will do the job a lot better ? i wont post it here as i dont want it a 101 for thieves but ive overcome every lock ive come up against using this as a last resort, brilliant on failed locks and worked everytime.

    Im no longer in the trade because its swamped with part timers,call centers and cowboys etc.I now get paid holidays,sick pay and a pension as an employee so happy with my lot.

    I wish you well in the trade, but please chill im on your side and can cut a 110 key by hand
    Originally posted by al69
    AL69 - I have no axe to grind! Just bored with 'advice' that is not relevant or current or backed up by any live/real commercial advice - as you already said you are no longer in the trade, not sure how long you have been out of the loop?

    I don't really understand why hand cutting a Chubb (now Union) 110 key for a well made mortice lock by hand has anything to do with opening the latest 3 star euro cylinders?

    To cut a key for the latest 3 star euro cylinders you need a dimple cutting / laser CNC unit, they are approx 25k each with the jaws.

    A 110 is like cheese compared to a 3 star euro in a decent multipoint uPVC door. Opening a 110 is simple, compared to the 80+ components in one modern 3 star euro cylinder.

    Seriously take a look at the latest locks - I'm about to start selling an Abloy Mul-T-lock padlock that is cloud based... it knows where it is, it tracks itself, it can have a 20M fence/zone and tamper alarm all connected to the internet/cctv/tracking. Currently being beta tested on the back of lorries in the Arctic circle.
    My company is not stuck in the dark ages - nor do we assume we can rest on our laurels.

    The old 110 is great - but like anything, evolution happens.
    I'll bet you 200 you can't open my front door (ABS) in 30 mins without dynamite or plastic explosives (or paying my kids to give you a key)
    If you stay loyal all the time, you get treated like a dog.
    • al69
    • By al69 1st Jul 13, 9:52 PM
    • 65 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    al69
    AL69 - I have no axe to grind! Just bored with 'advice' that is not relevant or current or backed up by any live/real commercial advice - as you already said you are no longer in the trade, not sure how long you have been out of the loop?

    I don't really understand why hand cutting a Chubb (now Union) 110 key for a well made mortice lock by hand has anything to do with opening the latest 3 star euro cylinders?

    To cut a key for the latest 3 star euro cylinders you need a dimple cutting / laser CNC unit, they are approx 25k each with the jaws.

    A 110 is like cheese compared to a 3 star euro in a decent multipoint uPVC door. Opening a 110 is simple, compared to the 80+ components in one modern 3 star euro cylinder.

    Seriously take a look at the latest locks - I'm about to start selling an Abloy Mul-T-lock padlock that is cloud based... it knows where it is, it tracks itself, it can have a 20M fence/zone and tamper alarm all connected to the internet/cctv/tracking. Currently being beta tested on the back of lorries in the Arctic circle.
    My company is not stuck in the dark ages - nor do we assume we can rest on our laurels.

    The old 110 is great - but like anything, evolution happens.
    I'll bet you 200 you can't open my front door (ABS) in 30 mins without dynamite or plastic explosives (or paying my kids to give you a key)
    Originally posted by MathewJ
    Come on chill out, the 110 reference was to the mla exam.

    You should know by now the best cylinder in the world is useless if you bypass it and access the mech direct ? One small drill hole...

    I loved a bit of nde,some of the gucchi falle stuff is amazing.Seen the 110 decoder thats 3k to buy ? How about a 3ks decoder ?

    Why do you seem so angry ? Im with you on this, i hate the ones who play at it as much as you do.They helped put me out of business.

    For the record i had national contract for a facilities management firm serving very well known blue chip companies.Not exactly non commercial especially with assa access control electric locks everywhere on a lot of sites.Drilling those meter wide doors is fun.

    Just because i chose not to join the mla doesnt make me a lesser "ex" locksmith imho.I know plenty who are in it though.

    I may even see you at telford later in the year, who knows ?

    Im not questioning your ability or expertise in anyway cant you see that ?
  • MathewJ
    Come on chill out, the 110 reference was to the mla exam.

    You should know by now the best cylinder in the world is useless if you bypass it and access the mech direct ? One small drill hole...

    I loved a bit of nde,some of the gucchi falle stuff is amazing.Seen the 110 decoder thats 3k to buy ? How about a 3ks decoder ?

    Why do you seem so angry ? Im with you on this, i hate the ones who play at it as much as you do.They helped put me out of business.

    For the record i had national contract for a facilities management firm serving very well known blue chip companies.Not exactly non commercial especially with assa access control electric locks everywhere on a lot of sites.Drilling those meter wide doors is fun.

    Just because i chose not to join the mla doesnt make me a lesser "ex" locksmith imho.I know plenty who are in it though.

    I may even see you at telford later in the year, who knows ?

    Im not questioning your ability or expertise in anyway cant you see that ?
    Originally posted by al69
    Hey - I was a little over the top sorry I will be at the MLA conference I think Fri and Sat but Sat morning will be best for me if you want a 1-1 !
    We nearly lost everything tonight as next door unit burst into flames - 7pm and we left at 6.10pm with my son on work experience with me.
    Brings it all back to reality and what's really important... No one was hurt and tomorrow we will discover if our Silca babies are alive and kicking!
    Pics here - dont accuse me of spam please, this was 7.30pm tonight from one of my co - directors and our unit is the one on the far left (next door) We don't sell fire....
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=642817369079919&set=a.5254259841523 92.127791.525408734154117&type=1&theater
    If you stay loyal all the time, you get treated like a dog.
    • al69
    • By al69 3rd Jul 13, 12:29 AM
    • 65 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    al69
    It must be a nightmare time for you, that is something you cannot plan for.
    I hope the machines are good, i know you could probably get another on the insurance but its not the same as something you have set up just right and cuts how you know everytime,if that makes sense ?

    Still not 100% if im at telford yet but hopefully meeting up with some buddies for a beer or 3 if al goes to plan and i can get the time off "work".
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