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    • MSE Archna
    • By MSE Archna 29th Aug 07, 9:45 AM
    • 1,874Posts
    • 6,140Thanks
    MSE Archna
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA:Should Chanelle avoid using Ziggy?
    • #1
    • 29th Aug 07, 9:45 AM
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA:Should Chanelle avoid using Ziggy? 29th Aug 07 at 9:45 AM
    Here's this week's hypothetical situation for you to cogitate on:

    Should Chanelle avoid using Ziggy?

    Chanelle decides a few rooms in her house need to be decorated and, as she does not have the time to do it herself, calls a few local tradesmen to find the best quote. The third decorator, Ziggy, provides a price almost 50% less than his competitors. When Chanelle queries this, he comments that by not declaring his earnings to the Inland Revenue he can pass the savings onto his customers. Should she use him or should she report him?

    Should Chanelle avoid using Ziggy?

    Click reply to have your say

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    • Dorrie
    • By Dorrie 29th Aug 07, 4:39 PM
    • 66 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    • #2
    • 29th Aug 07, 4:39 PM
    • #2
    • 29th Aug 07, 4:39 PM
    Yes, she should avoid using Ziggy as he is breaking the law! It's quite simple - he is stealing. Why do people think we have to pay such high taxes? Partly it's because of people like Ziggy not paying their full whack.
    • tifo
    • By tifo 29th Aug 07, 4:49 PM
    • 1,186 Posts
    • 262 Thanks
    • #3
    • 29th Aug 07, 4:49 PM
    • #3
    • 29th Aug 07, 4:49 PM
    Ziggy's tax affairs should be no concern of the customer, how he deals with the IR is up to him.

    He asked for a price for work, she paid him and got job done. End.

    Why we pay high taxes is a different story ..... and nothing to do with Ziggy.
  • Alchemist
    • #4
    • 29th Aug 07, 6:09 PM
    • #4
    • 29th Aug 07, 6:09 PM
    What are the chances that the other (cash in hand) workmen pay tax?! See the yellow pages for a list of local tax evaders! On the plus side Ziggy is being honest with her, on the negative side, if he is not paying tax he's a complete moron for telling a stranger... so if she wants an honest fool go for him, but would she really like an idiot working on her house?
  • mikegould
    • #5
    • 29th Aug 07, 6:57 PM
    • #5
    • 29th Aug 07, 6:57 PM
    I'll be the first to say it, I’d let Ziggy do the decorating, then wait a few weeks and report him to the inland revenue, that way everyone’s a winner well, apart from the two blokes who gave me quotes as well
    why do we do it,

    spending money we dont have on things we dont need :confused:

    No Links in Signatures by Site Rules - MSE Forum Team 2
  • Wiggly_Worm
    • #6
    • 29th Aug 07, 7:34 PM
    • #6
    • 29th Aug 07, 7:34 PM
    Normally I'd say go for the cheapest - Ziggy's relationship (or lack thereof) with the tax office is entirely his own affair.

    BUT, anyone this blatent, and proud it seems, about breaking the law surely cannot be trusted?! So no way, I wouldn't touch this shyster with a bargepole.
    Proud to be dealing with my debts
    • anntics
    • By anntics 29th Aug 07, 7:55 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    • #7
    • 29th Aug 07, 7:55 PM
    • #7
    • 29th Aug 07, 7:55 PM
    Normally I'd say go for the cheapest - Ziggy's relationship (or lack thereof) with the tax office is entirely his own affair.

    BUT, anyone this blatent, and proud it seems, about breaking the law surely cannot be trusted?! So no way, I wouldn't touch this shyster with a bargepole.
    Originally posted by Wiggly_Worm
    I don't actually agree with the people who say it's his own affair. It's everyone's - tax avoiders increase the burden for the rest of us. How many threads and posts lament the lack of treatment on the NHS, the woeful inadequacy of benefits for those that genuinely need them and the cutting back of services in many areas. He doesn't pay taxes on the money that he earns, but I bet he still uses the NHS, sends his kids to school, drives his van on the roads, etc, etc, etc.

    I would not use him, and I'll be honest and say that I don't think I would go as far as reporting him - but I would make my feelings clear and leave him wondering and looking over his shoulder.

  • ptdc
    • #8
    • 29th Aug 07, 8:15 PM
    • #8
    • 29th Aug 07, 8:15 PM
    I'd have Ziggy do it. Saving for me, and I don't really see it as stealing. Until I see that tax money is spent well, I don't see it as being my problem.
  • chinny
    • #9
    • 29th Aug 07, 8:30 PM
    • #9
    • 29th Aug 07, 8:30 PM
    Are tax evaders like Ziggy any better than benefits cheats? I can't see a difference. Once ( along time ago) I did get a cheaper deal on cavity wall insulation by paying cash - but (amazingly naive, I know) I didn't fully understand why this was.
    Now I'm a teacher and if people don't pay their taxes, I don't have a job!
    More recently a decorator who'd given us a far-from-cheap quote for doing most of our house phoned the night before to check that we were OK to pay in cash. We didn't have £2000 in cash lying around! When I asked him why he needed cash he just came out with it and said that since he was largely retired now, he had "shut his books" and didn't declare his income. In fairness I think it really was a case of his not being able to cope with the compicated admin of being self employed anymore (he was getting on a bit).
    I told him I wasn't happy with the situation and he got quite scared that I was going to shop him. He offered to leave but I couldn't face explaining to my wife that our decorating was getting done because I'd got on my high-horse, so I agreed to pay him on a daily basis and cast a blind eye.
    "Those who understand compound interest are destined to collect it. Those who don't are doomed to pay it."
  • turnbull
    It might seem clever to avoid paying tax, but taxes should be paid for all and provide benefit to all. If we all avoided paying tax like this, society would fall apart. My tax bill for last year was £38,000 directly and I paid a total of £26,000 VAT on top of that. I've never had any qualms with paying tax. If you choose to live in the this society, then on the whole, you have to abide by it's various laws that enable it to function.
    • Dave Sk
    • By Dave Sk 29th Aug 07, 9:02 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Dave Sk
    Personally, as the owner of a company which honestly pays every last penny of the VAT and tax it owes, I say GRASS!

    Tax evaders are a real threat to my business as they can undercut me with ease simply due to the fact that they don't cough up like everyone else.

    Not only that but it's also more likely that he doesn't have insurance and with vanish without a trace with her cash.

    Tax evasion is bad news. Tax avoidance on the other hand, well that's all good fun and quite satisfying.
  • dc1350
    No she shouldn't. I earn £5.38 an hour and have to pay PAYE. People like Ziggy are worse than benefeit fraudsters and are pushing up the standard rate of tax.
    • Middlestitch
    • By Middlestitch 29th Aug 07, 9:41 PM
    • 1,327 Posts
    • 2,431 Thanks
    Use him and report him!
    • Mics_chick
    • By Mics_chick 29th Aug 07, 9:58 PM
    • 11,689 Posts
    • 11,566 Thanks
    I would use him
    You should never call somebody else a nerd or geek because everybody (even YOU !!!) is an
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  • camason
    If Ziggy has just told me that he is a tax evader to 'pass the savings on', I would have to break out my book'o'economics.

    If a builder doesn't understand how illegal his actions are and cannot maintain proper book-keeping, I don't think I could trust him with a shovel either.

    I can't imagine it would be helpful with the insurance, if there were any problems with the work.

    Most on-the-cheap labour usually only provides short-term savings. It's not worth the risk for me.
    • Woodyrocks
    • By Woodyrocks 30th Aug 07, 12:41 AM
    • 1,897 Posts
    • 1,549 Thanks
    Unless I shop online I always pay cash. Whether it be for a new bed from M&S or getting my floor laid, whilst M&S charge me VAT and pay their taxes what about the man I have found from the yellow pages laying my floor with the handwritten receipt system whom I am also paying in cash? The way I see it my job is not to police the business records of those I pay for their service/goods. For example I paid my cleaner by cash today - is she paying tax, I doubt it. Does it hurt me? no. Will it hurt her in the long run - it just might.

    My motivation for paying my tax is not because of teachers or nurses or policemen but because i see it as a social responsibilty, because it is important that my papertrail computes and because I understand that I am part of the economic food chain, if the builder is willing to take the risk that is his problem, I would hire him nonetheless as long as I was assured he would do a good job.
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  • Magic Mel
    No, get him to do the work, then stitch him afterwards
    Magic Mel
    Because I magically disappear when it's time to decorate !!
  • sloucho
    Theft is Theft
    I can’t believe so many people wouldn’t care or would turn a blind eye, especially if you could “save” a few quid by defrauding the rest of us.
    I assume you wouldn’t bother helping a old woman who was being mugged unless there was something in it for you.
    Theft is Theft – end off.
    I suppose the only time you would pay attention is when he runs over and kills you kids in his un-insured, un-taxed and un-roadworthy van.
  • teekay
    Why would anyone use a trader that announces his dishonesty as part of the quote. Such a workman would not belong to any professional body and vanish as soon as he's paid. By not paying his tax you end up paying for him.
    • Canucklehead
    • By Canucklehead 30th Aug 07, 7:44 AM
    • 6,262 Posts
    • 3,371 Thanks
    Good morning: I wouldn't use the services of a tradesperson who blatantly evades paying tax on profits...and I would suspect that the individual doesn't hold liability insurance in the event of a 'mishap' in your home ..lack of a paper trail to follow in the event that you need to seek redress for substandard/dangerous work would make your life even more difficult....get a written quotation (at least 3) and an invoice from the tradesperson upon completion. BTW, there is nothing wrong with paying cash for a job (our preference as this type of payment won't bounce..trades need to avoid rogue customers as well ) and banks will happily accept cash deposits.


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