MONEY MORAL DILEMMA:Should Chanelle avoid using Ziggy?

MrLew

sloucho wrote: »

I can’t believe so many people wouldn’t care or would turn a blind eye, especially if you could “save” a few quid by defrauding the rest of us.
I assume you wouldn’t bother helping a old woman who was being mugged unless there was something in it for you.
Theft is Theft – end off.
I suppose the only time you would pay attention is when he runs over and kills you kids in his un-insured, un-taxed and un-roadworthy van.

Sloucho, you forgot to add....whilst he picks up his dole money.

BigSky_3

Avalon_Adam wrote: »

The fact he doesn't declare his earnings makes no difference. Our taxes are going to fund a war in Iraq and countless other stupid projects of this government. If he's good and cheap then she should definatley [sic] use him

What makes you say our taxes all go on stupid projects? Government spending on defence last year was around £28bn, that's approximately 2.5% of GDP - significantly less than average annual spending through the eighties and nineties. Education spending is currently over £70bn and health gets £100bn.
The Government spends far more money on schools and hospitals than on the war on Iraq. Do you think looking after the sick or educating our children are "stupid projects"?

puddings_2

What's to say that the other two tradesmen that quoted weren't charging double the price but still not paying their tax anyway?

---

I really am surprised how many whiter than white, squeaky clean, angelic posters there are contributing to this discussion with comments like "theft is theft is theft"

So let me ask all you people something...
1) Have you always paid £6 for your cigarettes rather than get them for £3 from that "bloke down the pub"?
2) Have you always paid £5-£15 for your cds and dvds rather than copying them for £0 ?
3) Have you always handed money in to the police if you've found it in the street?

If you answer no to any of these questions then you too are a
THIEF
but also a
HYPOCRITE !

bigandmean69

one of the biggest tax avaders are the government.
mp's using tax payers money for their second homes and using tax payers money for their council tax.
now you tell me who are the robbers.:mad:

guppy

Scorpio_Brighton wrote: »

A friend who recently retired found that after half a century of work, tax and National Insurance, even his meagre pension was taxed. Included in what was counted as his taxable income were the amounts he would have to pay in Council Tax, TV Tax, Insurance Tax, Vehicle Tax, VAT and Excise Duty; so like the rest of us, he was even paying tax on taxes out of his pittance

This first bit is all very touching, but if your friend is so poor then doesn't he just claim the various means-tested benefits he's entitled to since his income is so low? e.g. Pension Credit, Council Tax Benefit etc. Is there really more pride in tax evasion then there is in claiming benefits he's earned through his NI contributions over the years?

Scorpio_Brighton wrote: »

Then he realised that the tax-man could hardly insist that it was impossible for him to live on a pension that barely covered his fixed costs. That was, after all, what the government said he could live on. So when he started to work to make ends meet, it was strictly cash in, cash out. For the first time in his life, he can now buy some of the modest luxuries he always wanted. He still pays VAT and excise duty at a minimum of 17½% on practically every undeclared pound he spends. That is higher than the top income tax rate of some successful economies, so he is not living tax free, he has just restrained the rapacity of the state a little.

No offence, but this second bit really makes me think you are in cloud cuckoo land. Is this going to be your friend's excuse if the taxman catches up with him?

"Oh, well I'm old and poor and can't afford the telly licence but I don't want to claim benefits, and anyway, I pay VAT on all my undeclared income...so it all goes round, eh, and I'm just doing my bit to restrain the rapacity of the state, guv?"

You are having a laugh! Mainly at the expense of the other old people that are more honest. I suppose you consider the honest people to be "mugs"? I'm not judging the morality of your friend's actions, if he's genuinely poor, I pity him. But I do think he's very misguided. And you are more so, if you think that he is a successful role model for the rest of us to copy.

I don't like paying tax and the Gvt. certainly waste some money on all kinds of things I don't like, but someone has to pay for public services. The selfish and shortsighted attitude of tax dodgers demonstrates the necessity of forcing people to contribute.

Scorpio_Brighton wrote: »

He still pays VAT and excise duty at a minimum of 17½% on practically every undeclared pound he spends. That is higher than the top income tax rate of some successful economies.

This sounds lovely, but again, you are in cloud cuckoo land. Income tax is just one of many varieties of tax, and unless you consider Dubai a successful economy, I think you'll find most developed countries have comparable taxes to the UK...

According to the OECD (2005) tax take on a single person, no children:

Germany 51.8%.........Canada 31.6%
France 50.1%...........Switzerland 29.5%
Sweden 47.9%.........United States 29.1%
Denmark 41.4%........Australia 28.3%
Spain 39.0%............Japan 27.7%
Luxembourg 35.3%....Ireland 25.7%
UK 33.5%.............. Mexico 18.2%
.............................S.Korea 17.3%

Be seeing you in Korea then?

harryhound

BigSky wrote: »

What makes you say our taxes all go on stupid projects? Government spending on defence last year was around £28bn, that's approximately 2.5% of GDP - significantly less than average annual spending through the eighties and nineties. Education spending is currently over £70bn and health gets £100bn.
The Government spends far more money on schools and hospitals than on the war on Iraq. Do you think looking after the sick or educating our children are "stupid projects"?

When we get into accounts, we all make mistakes as "figures don't lie but liars sure can figure".
Are we getting value for money from our "free" education system, when we compare our performance with (say) that of Japan (wealthy example) or India (pull yourself up by your boot straps example).
Do the kids (customers?) appreciate the six figure sum it costs society to support them through their extended adolescence? Do they realise they live in a competitive world of 6.3bn people? Do they expect our Government to be able to afford to protect their "rights"?

How much of the NHS budget is really spent on self inflicted sickness or injury? How much is really care of the elderly? Very tricky topic. The NHS started in my life-time and the legislation was pushed through on the promise it would be self financing: We would all be so much healthier that we would not require sickness benefit, stay at work paying our taxes - a win win situation. (60 years on we have a high tech expensive system, that refuses even those who want a dignified death and where going into hospital is 4 times more dangerous than crossing the road, because its workers and visitors cannot be bothered to rub their hands in alcohol).

The figure for the cost of the armed forces is only half the true cost: if we took the money spent in (say) Iraq and burnt it, at least it would keep the troops warm for a few winter days AND THE SOLDIERS AND FACTORIES PRODUCING THE ARMS could go and do an effective job producing something useful and pay taxes into the kitty rather than taking them out.
(Our invasion of Iraq was meant to increase oil production, postponing "peak oil" by 6 years, but was sold to us as improving our security. It has been a self evident failure on both counts).

The tax system is a BIG dis-incentive for fit and healthy pensioners to carry on working. There is something called "age allowance". This is a built in poverty trap for pensioners. If a pensioner's extra income (e.g. from working) pushes income into this zone, each extra pound gets taxed at a higher rate than anyone else in the land. Personally even I would give up working (and sponge on the rest of you), if I were to find I was having my income taxed at these rates. Yes there is more pride in earning a living than being a burden on the rest of society by claiming benefits - that is why the Government can offer benefits confident that a high percentage of pensioners will be too proud, too lazy or too stupid (have you seen the forms ?) to claim these means tested benefits. Perhaps there should be a special EARNED income allowance, just to stop us pensioners becoming drones in the hive ?

[Originally Posted by sloucho
I can’t believe so many people wouldn’t care or would turn a blind eye, especially if you could “save” a few quid by defrauding the rest of us.
I assume you wouldn’t bother helping a old woman who was being mugged unless there was something in it for you.
Theft is Theft – end off.
I suppose the only time you would pay attention is when he runs over and kills you kids in his un-insured, un-taxed and un-roadworthy van.
Sloucho, you forgot to add....whilst he picks up his dole money.]

There is no evidence in the question that "Ziggy" is a pensioner or that he is claiming benefits. With the number of ANPR (automatic number-plate recognition) cameras round here, he would not get away with the motoring offences for long - Perhaps he is a European migrant still on his 6 months of driving on foreign plates?

TTFN

Harry.

PS Perhaps the Germans have got it right, we should demand to see a contractor's tax certificate or check his NI number with a central registry?
In Germany you are also legally financially responsible for your aged parents.
Here in the UK, top of the charts for divorce/single parenting, we cannot even get some parents to support their children.

flufff

Please dont use Ziggy!
Why?
Because he probably is a benefit cheat and thats most likely reason why hes not declaring tax.
He wont be insured.
If an irate customer or annoyed ex wife "shops" him for a bad job or because she knows hes working and she gets no maintenance because of his fiddling then your job wont get done.
Trust me I know this is what my EX husband does.I do not approve nor am associated with this and I have shopped him on numerous occasions.

Having said all this its highly unlikely Ziggy would tell you hes fiddling the tax.So I would check tradesman is reputable by advertising,vat number insurance etc and references.
If something is too good to be true it probably is.
Or in true moneysaving style pick up the paintbrush and do it yourself as I do.Its not hard!
Dont pay cash if you want comeback on shoddy work as most wont put it through the books.

flufff

You can argue the same about gardeners,window cleaners etc

Katie-Kat-Kins

I agree use him then report him. But keep a close eye on him, his dishonesty/stupidity may not stop with the tax man. Are you getting the right materials etc? Is he doing the job to standard?

tinax0

How would you feel if he said he had taken his materials from the site of your neighbour who had been having their own kitchen renovated...and that is why he could keep his costs down. Its still stealing...dont use him report him.