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    • Former MSE Helen
    • By Former MSE Helen 29th Sep 11, 11:31 AM
    • 2,324Posts
    • 971Thanks
    Former MSE Helen
    'I need an 'angry' and 'excuse me' horn on my scooter' blog discussion
    • #1
    • 29th Sep 11, 11:31 AM
    'I need an 'angry' and 'excuse me' horn on my scooter' blog discussion 29th Sep 11 at 11:31 AM
    This is the discussion to link on the back of Martin's blog. Please read the blog first, as this discussion follows it.

    Please click 'post reply' to discuss below.
Page 1
  • KTM Gordo
    • #2
    • 29th Sep 11, 2:02 PM
    • #2
    • 29th Sep 11, 2:02 PM
    They covered this on the advanced rider training I did. They suggested two short toots for excuse me (one for each word!) and a longer hoot for more urgent situations.

    The two-toot method, with a wave, also works as a thank you for someone giving way to you.

    ...but leave the anger at home - it tends to cause accidents.

    Ride safely!
    • peterbaker
    • By peterbaker 29th Sep 11, 2:06 PM
    • 2,776 Posts
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    • #3
    • 29th Sep 11, 2:06 PM
    • #3
    • 29th Sep 11, 2:06 PM
    They have exactly what you need in Beijing as standard now, because all the scooters and motorised rickshaws are battery powered and otherwise silent.

    The problem is that for it to work here you'd also need to transplant the Beijing population who are conditioned to this kind of thing and take the constant beeping in their stride and do not take it personally at all. Beijing pedestrians also bump into anyone who doesn't get it - just as a reminder that they need to get it - not that I would suggest you start doing that!

    It is quite amazing how there are no collisions and no obvious blood on the streets in Beijing.

    The way mixed pedestrian and motorcycle and motor traffic works in Beijing is a kind of open road equivalent of how pedestrian traffic does actually work (no scooters mixing it though) in our busiest London station concourses in the morning rush hour - people do not need to interact by eyes meeting or saying anything (in fact it all goes wrong if persons' on converging paths mistakenly allow their eyes to meet ) - all that is needed anywhere where there is a problem of conflict between mixed busy traffic types is a population with a common sub-conscious atune to what works best, and in Beijing that includes a constant impersonal beeping racket

    The problem in London (apart from our regular commuters at Victoria or Kings Cross who do know what works in the wide marble spaces leading from the platforms to the Underground stairs and vice-versa) is that we have no common sub-conscious of what works best, just plenty of people ready to take offence if you converge on their path making urgent noises about something (we just don't get it, do we?)
    Last edited by peterbaker; 29-09-2011 at 2:14 PM.
    • JimmyTheWig
    • By JimmyTheWig 29th Sep 11, 4:39 PM
    • 11,885 Posts
    • 11,412 Thanks
    • #4
    • 29th Sep 11, 4:39 PM
    • #4
    • 29th Sep 11, 4:39 PM
    I was going to suggest a short "toot" for signalling your presence and a longer toot for being angry. Certainly what I'd do in the car.

    Can you not get a different sounding horn attached to your handlebars or something? I'm imagining a "Dukes of Hazard" horn noise!!
  • hintock
    • #5
    • 30th Sep 11, 10:31 AM
    • #5
    • 30th Sep 11, 10:31 AM
    Why just bikers...
    They may be more vulnerable, but they are just as often more careless of other road users.
    ALL road users should see themselves as equal, and it seems to me that bikers, scooters and other two wheelers, want extra.
  • scheming_gypsy
    • #6
    • 30th Sep 11, 11:11 AM
    • #6
    • 30th Sep 11, 11:11 AM
    I'd be angry if i had to ride a scooter as well; although i'd prefer to not have a horn and bring more attention to myself.
    • ScarletBea
    • By ScarletBea 30th Sep 11, 11:28 AM
    • 2,788 Posts
    • 4,163 Thanks
    • #7
    • 30th Sep 11, 11:28 AM
    • #7
    • 30th Sep 11, 11:28 AM
    Yes, I wish more people in scooters and bikes had a 'warning' hoot as well.
    I walk to work along the canal, and sometimes I get a right scare when a bike just shows up right behind me or tries to overtake me, really silently. What's wrong about ringing the bell to warm me they're coming behind?

    Even in cars, there's not the habit of using the horn as a warning, which I found very strange! I was driving with some friends through a really narrow and winding road, and before each curve (which you couldn't see further) I sounded my horn, as a warning, and they were really surprised. Well, better to warn people, because there wasn't enough room for 2 cars and I'd hate to crash...
    I'd also like to know if there was any car coming in the opposite direction.
    Being brave is going after your dreams head on
  • flexrider
    • #8
    • 30th Sep 11, 6:06 PM
    • #8
    • 30th Sep 11, 6:06 PM
    Think my next Motorbike will come with a max and paddy sound horn like this but can imagine the reaction if this went off!
    "MSE Money saving challenges..8/12/13 3,500 saved so far " p.s if i been helpfully please leave me a thank you but seek official advice at all times from a pro
    • MothballsWallet
    • By MothballsWallet 30th Sep 11, 9:31 PM
    • 13,621 Posts
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    • #9
    • 30th Sep 11, 9:31 PM
    • #9
    • 30th Sep 11, 9:31 PM
    Invest in scooter-mounted assault weapons instead, far more practical for London...
    Always ask yourself one question: What would Gibbs do?

    I live in the UK City of Culture 2021
  • flexrider
    Invest in scooter-mounted assault weapons instead, far more practical for London...
    Originally posted by MothballsWallet

    Could do but im a north west Uk Kinda guy miles away from That place called London Town. Least with my alarm systems in my post would do the trick as it speaks to anyone who never obtained their GCSE results or even read the highway code.
    "MSE Money saving challenges..8/12/13 3,500 saved so far " p.s if i been helpfully please leave me a thank you but seek official advice at all times from a pro
    • liz545
    • By liz545 1st Oct 11, 10:49 AM
    • 1,713 Posts
    • 16,706 Thanks
    I think some people are just a bit more on the defensive, so they're more likely to interpret your "beep" as a criticism/attack. I ring my bike bell to let people know I'm there if they're about to step off the pavement or into a bike lane, and if you're cycling alongside a canal you're advised to use your bell to let people know you're behind them - I don't expect people to always give way, I just don't want to cause an accident! However, there are always some people who shout at you or think you're being rude and want them to jump out of the way! Just can't please some people...
    2015 comp wins - 370.25
    Recent wins: gym class, baby stuff
    Thanks to everyone who posts freebies and comps!
    • Ken68
    • By Ken68 3rd Oct 11, 10:29 AM
    • 6,526 Posts
    • 4,161 Thanks
    You're too valuable to us, Martin, to be charging about on a two wheeler or even a small car.
    Get a Bentley and a chauffeur.
    • timbstoke
    • By timbstoke 3rd Oct 11, 1:45 PM
    • 961 Posts
    • 1,234 Thanks
    On my bike, I have two options: Horn for the 'highway code' purpose of letting people know I'm there, preferably before I get SMIDSY'd. For more subtle situations that don't quite demand a horn, clutch in and full revs usually gets peoples attention. Doesn't work on a scooter, but a good one for those on geared bikes.

    Generally though, my horn doesn't get used much. One of the things about being on a bike is the added requirement to do the observations for everyone who hasn't worried about it because they're in a nice big metal box with airbags and seatbelts, so (touch wood) I've so far always seen impending doom and been able to react before it happens. If the other road user does stop (usually in a cloud of smoke and shrieking tyres as they realise the roundabout they're about to enter isn't empty after all), I just give them an "I'm not angry, I'm just....disappointed" look while slowly shaking my head, then continue my journey.
    • Skeenfleent
    • By Skeenfleent 3rd Oct 11, 4:39 PM
    • 84 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    Bah, two wheelers want extra because they are NOT equal! The road, especially in London, is a great way to see the bad side of human nature (or un-nature, as we're not evolved to drive cars in busy cities, remember). Two wheelers get the worst of it by far, especially cyclists who can't power away from dangerous situations and are least protected. It doesn't stop bad drivers just because one rides courteously, so sure, it's then the drivers' fault. But good awareness and thus communication is key. Horns on bikes are good! But people need to stop their addiction to cars, end of story. They have their place - but that's hardly in the inner city just to transport people around. Not enough space, and we have to get real about that, and soon. Anyway, Martin, do you want to save money on a gym subscription by not requiring one at all? Swap the scooter for a bicycle. Top moneysaving tip there (well, if you have thick tyres that is, otherwise inner tubes get expensive with all the car-and-alcohol-derived glass on the roads)!
    • areader
    • By areader 3rd Oct 11, 8:27 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    noise pollution
    How about everyone keeps their use of the horn to a minimum - there's enough traffic and horn noise around as it is.

    and if you're on a "really narrow and winding road", how about you just drive very slowly and carefully rather than creating a lot of anti-social noise to announce your presence! In any case, who is to say the person coming the other way isn't listening to the radio or music?

    Going back to the blog in hand, using your horn in anger is against the Highway Code, not that I've seen anyone pay much attention to it these days....

    Highway Code - Signals - Section 112
    (I cannot post links so here is a copy/paste)
    The horn. Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence. Never sound your horn aggressively. You MUST NOT use your horn
    • while stationary on the road
    • when driving in a built-up area between the hours of 11.30 pm and 7.00 am
    except when another road user poses a danger.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 4th Oct 11, 10:01 AM
    • 21,421 Posts
    • 15,675 Thanks
    How about a horn for "I'm sorry, it was my fault that I tried to put my scooter under your car by pulling out onto the roundabout that you were already on and forcing you to brake harshly because I am a complete !!!!"
  • Stephen Leak
    Just for the record, sounding a vehicle's horn "in anger" is actually an offence. 60 and 3 points. It's meant to be used to warn other road users of your presence. It's also an offence to use it when the vehicle is stationary (ie. braking to avoid a pedestrian, then blaring your horn), or between 11pm and 7am, unless it is to warn another moving vehicle of your presence in order to avoid an accident.
    • Scooterman
    • By Scooterman 4th Oct 11, 10:27 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Get an (Italian) Airhorn with the compressor & trumpet all-in-one
    Martin - I paid Metropolis Motorcycles to find the best mounting point and then fit an incredibly loud Italian horn (sorry - have forgetten the brand at the time of writing this, but I bought it at Halfords). This was an excellent replacement for the pathetic tinny beep provided as original equpt by Honda (a top-price 600 cc Silverwing). By only half-pressing the button I can give a more polite warning.
    Whilst at it they also fitted one of those Italian aprons (Tucano Urbano) which I aquired second hand. Again a great assistance in inclement weather.
    My Barnet Metropolis branch did both the above at very reasonable price and within a few hours, but I guess their Vauxhall branch would be better for you.
    • gromituk
    • By gromituk 5th Oct 11, 11:37 AM
    • 3,031 Posts
    • 541 Thanks
    The standard horn on one motorbike I had was really pathetic (someone reversed into me because he couldn't hear it). What I did was add a much more powerful one which sounded only if the full beam was on. Very useful, and didn't require any extra switches.
    Time is an illusion - lunch time doubly so.
  • lobo688
    Best Intentions
    Yes, I wish more people in scooters and bikes had a 'warning' hoot as well.
    I walk to work along the canal, and sometimes I get a right scare when a bike just shows up right behind me or tries to overtake me, really silently. What's wrong about ringing the bell to warm me they're coming behind?
    Originally posted by ScarletBea
    Unfortunately this doesn't always work. While cycling on a shared path a bike in front of me rung their bell a good distance out (3 seconds away). Both pedestrians moved to the left of the path. I then rung my bell a good distance out (3 seconds away) to let them know more then 1 bike was passing. One person panicked and ran right across the path and collided with the cyclist in front of me. They both ended up on the ground with cuts and scrapes.
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