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    • onlineo
    • By onlineo 5th Jan 10, 11:37 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    • #2
    • 5th Jan 10, 11:37 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Jan 10, 11:37 PM
    In one word. Yes

    In more words, treat her how you would treat any other employee. In this instance a verbal warning followed by a written final warning, then out.

    She is your friend, but she could seriously drag your business and with it your livelihood down and that would really put a strain on your friendship. Tough love is sometimes what people need to buck themselve up (helped me!).

    Edit: reread, you are only the edditer, not owner. Decision still stands as she could disrupt your team, and thus results and your future career.
    Last edited by onlineo; 05-01-2010 at 11:41 PM. Reason: misread dilemma
    • Cloudane
    • By Cloudane 6th Jan 10, 12:29 AM
    • 502 Posts
    • 356 Thanks
    • #3
    • 6th Jan 10, 12:29 AM
    • #3
    • 6th Jan 10, 12:29 AM
    No. If she's going to hire her out of pity like that (if this was the question in itself I'd say don't do it, mind!) then she must've at least had the sense to know what the risks were in hiring someone going through such an unstable time. It'd just be messing her around to fire her again as soon as the risks come true.

    If you're going to be a friend, be a friend. Provide advice and support (perhaps company paid counselling) to get her on the right track, give her the 3 month probation that most companies allow when they hire someone and give more than the bare legal minimum warnings. Or don't hire her 'to help her' in the first place.

    People should make up their minds whether they're being nice or hardarse, and stick to it - being nice and then turning on her is worse than either.
    Last edited by Cloudane; 06-01-2010 at 12:31 AM.
    • andy40
    • By andy40 6th Jan 10, 5:51 AM
    • 168 Posts
    • 185 Thanks
    • #4
    • 6th Jan 10, 5:51 AM
    • #4
    • 6th Jan 10, 5:51 AM
    I agree with Cloudane, if the reason Naomi hired Annie was to help her then Naomi should see it through.
    Within reason of course.
    LBM Dec 08
    DMP Aug 09
    DFD 2014!
    • luxor4t
    • By luxor4t 6th Jan 10, 6:41 AM
    • 10,455 Posts
    • 37,881 Thanks
    • #5
    • 6th Jan 10, 6:41 AM
    • #5
    • 6th Jan 10, 6:41 AM
    Depends what the 'major health issues' are: consider the provisions of the Disability Discrimination Act carefully!
    Mental health problems ARE covered by the Act.
    I can cook and sew, make flowers grow.
    • Voyager2002
    • By Voyager2002 6th Jan 10, 7:47 AM
    • 12,936 Posts
    • 8,869 Thanks
    • #6
    • 6th Jan 10, 7:47 AM
    • #6
    • 6th Jan 10, 7:47 AM
    Perhaps offer her a period of compassionate leave, ands/or allow her to work on a freelance basis.
    • Corona
    • By Corona 6th Jan 10, 8:57 AM
    • 873 Posts
    • 804 Thanks
    • #7
    • 6th Jan 10, 8:57 AM
    • #7
    • 6th Jan 10, 8:57 AM
    This is the sort of problem that rears its head when someone breaks that old rule "never mix money and friendship". Naomi is an editor and is paid to be a good one; so her own job could be at risk if she's seen to be favouring a friend at the cost of the business, not to mention the build-up of resentment amongst her colleagues.

    First step would be to talk to Annie seriously, highlighting the occasions where she's missed deadlines/hasn't done the work (all this needs to be written down). Then to tell her that things HAVE to improve, otherwise she can't keep her on the staff.

    Then, consult the HR department and find out what the company's legal position is.

    It may be that Annie is simply not ready to go back to work and needs to be "let go" in order to be eligible for benefits, and other help. As a friend, Naomi could offer to help in other ways - but not by re-employing her.
    • A.Jones
    • By A.Jones 6th Jan 10, 9:22 AM
    • 506 Posts
    • 441 Thanks
    • #8
    • 6th Jan 10, 9:22 AM
    • #8
    • 6th Jan 10, 9:22 AM
    Naomi should be fired for hiring friends, rather than the best candidate for a job.

    She would have to check the contract they signed about probationary periods and so on. They did sign a contract, didn't they?
  • gobbo
    • #9
    • 6th Jan 10, 9:36 AM
    • #9
    • 6th Jan 10, 9:36 AM
    Yes , there are too many waste of spaces being employed these days - tell her to get a job that she can do

    Here's this week's hypothetical situation for you to cogitate on:

    Should Naomi fire Annie?

    Naomi is the editor of a successful magazine - her long time friend Annie is a talented jobless writer, who's just got divorced and currently has some major health issues - so to help she hires her. Yet after a few weeks it's all missed deadlines and excuses - should she fire her while she's suffering?

    Click reply to have your say

    Originally posted by MSE Penelope
  • The Haggler
    Sack her!!!
    Yes, get rid of her. Do it in a nice way, but business is not the place for excuses and sloppy standards. Millions of people would kill for the opportunity that she's treating disrespectfully.

    As someone who runs a small business and HAS employed friends, I know how hard it can be. In my case, they were all employed for their skills, but people WILL try to push their luck when they are friends, and it's not on.

    Naomi has been a good friend to help a mate out when she needed support (and money!!!!) and the 'mate' has stabbed her in the back by being useless. If I were her, I'd have a quiet by serious word explaining what a difficult position she is putting me in, and that if she feels that she can't commit to the work then she's better of taking some time to sort herself out. In other words.... pull your socks up love and get a grip!
    • happypete
    • By happypete 6th Jan 10, 11:37 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    She maybe shouldn't have hired her in the first place, but she needs to use her management skills to get Annie back on the right track.
    All industrial disputes and cases of poor performance are down to bad management.
  • Cloupe
    I think as it says shes only been working there a few weeks she should be let go and like someone else said work on a freelance basis, that way she's still helping her friend but also puts her friend in a position where she has to help herself.

    It does say she is a talented writer so maybe under other circumstances she would have been right for the job. It sounds as though what she needs is a friend more than an employer but thats the dilemma when you are the boss of your friends!
    • pineapple
    • By pineapple 6th Jan 10, 1:10 PM
    • 6,312 Posts
    • 30,275 Thanks
    I think she should stick to her firm's policy for any new employee in those circumstances. To be seen to be giving preferential treatment could be disastrous for morale, make difficulties for Naomi and ultimately affect the viability of the firm.
    Nor will it help Annie much if she is subject to the constant stress of not performing.
    Also Naomi is just staff. It is not her firm and the firm is not her personal charitable enterprise.
    There are maybe other ways in which she could help her friend.
    • Debt_Free_Chick
    • By Debt_Free_Chick 6th Jan 10, 1:13 PM
    • 13,149 Posts
    • 9,492 Thanks
    Not enough information.

    What's the reason(s) for the missed deadlines?
    Warning ..... I'm a peri-menopausal axe-wielding maniac
    • Taffybiker
    • By Taffybiker 6th Jan 10, 2:08 PM
    • 917 Posts
    • 499 Thanks
    Annie was taken on as a competent writer; if she can't fulfill her job role then there is no real choice. The decision has to be made from a business point of view, and if the business decision is to let her go then that's how it must be.
    A genuine sickness on the other hand can make such a decision very awkward, especially since the employer was aware of the illness at the time of recruitment. The company would need to show that it has done everything possible to help Annie before letting her go.
    Try saying "I have under-a-pound in my wallet" and listen to people react!
  • airheadgreg
    Treat her like any other employee as onlineo said. Sure it's stupid to hire a friend for pity reasons, but if Annie was a talented writer, there would be no reason to not hire her just because she's a friend.
    One thing Naomi shouldn't do is to fob it off to someone else to sort out..
  • harryhound
    Tough love.

    Fool me once shame on you.
    Fool me twice shame on me.

    If there is no sign of "getting a grip", then remember there are thousands of talented young people with blighted careers for the want of a job like this.


    PS One of the problems with Africa is a culture where you can turn to your family members and DEMAND that they support you.
    What happens? The relative puts them on the payroll for which he is responsible.
  • gentlewomanprefersbonds
    Interesting as I've worked in magazine publishing for years - such is the nightmare of deadlines it's easy to muck it up. I don't think that Annie should be fired immediately (my old boss would disagree terribly) assuming that this fictional company has a staff handbook then any action must adhere to this.

    I'd make Annie aware through a first informal warning and ask if there are any resources that she needs or any other problems. Magazine publishing is a collective venture so it maybe that she has problems with contributors or suppliers that maybe an editor or publisher can assist with for example, or maybe it's personal issue. Then the discipline process goes through a second and final warning if the problem persists.

    If I was anyone else in this fictional company, I would be asking the owner if it's legal for his publisher to recruit a friend? As far as I am aware, the job must be advertised externally and the best person for the job employed, and it seems Annie was not that person so I'd be hauling Naomi in for chat as well!
    • jamespir
    • By jamespir 6th Jan 10, 6:43 PM
    • 18,725 Posts
    • 19,767 Thanks
    i think she should sit down with annie and see if she can find out the problems why deadlines are late etc
    Replies to posts are always welcome, If I have made a mistake in the post, I am human, tell me nicely and it will be corrected. If your reply cannot be nice, has an underlying issue, or you believe that you are God, please post in another forum. Thank you
    • pennypinchUK
    • By pennypinchUK 7th Jan 10, 10:16 AM
    • 382 Posts
    • 732 Thanks
    Yes, she should let her go. As an employer you must hire the best available (or the best you can afford). Never hire out of pity - that's a sure fire way of creating more problems. Perhaps offer her piece-work, with strict deadlines.

    There's no room for friendship in hiring decisions. Otherwise it'll quickly start to reflect on your ability to do your job and make decisions.
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