BA Cancellations v Long delays

WiseInvestor_2

waster wrote:

BA fly out replacement aircarft say 10 hours. Turnaround time say 1 hour - delay = 11 hours ... They could probably have leased an aircraft quicker in Miami if they wanted to. There are also normally loads of spare planes around the Carribean looking for “charter” work

Assuming BA have spare jumbos sitting around (which they dont'), how long do you think it would take to find 2 pilots and 15 cabin crew to operate this rescue flight? I'll answer that for you - about of 2 hours. The Captain then has to decide how much fuel he wants - a decision that can't legally be made by anyone else. It takes about 90 minutes to fuel a 747. BA then need to find an available take-off 'slot' out of Heathrow (the third busiest international airport in the world).

Add this to the flight time and it's really not as simple as you make out.

Moving on to leasing aircraft. BA pride themselves on their safety record. I very much doubt they'd 'risk' borrowing an aircraft from some tin-pot airline without first checking their maintenance standards/crew training etc etc. Not a decision to make quickly would you agree?

m_i

BA have given me 10,000 airmiles - am not sure how easy they are to use.

I have written to complain again.

Thanks for all your messages.

m_i

wolvoman

m_i wrote:

BA have given me 10,000 airmiles - am not sure how easy they are to use.

I have written to complain again.

Thanks for all your messages.

m_i

To complain again!! What on earth for? You've been compensated - 10,000 Airmiles is enough for another return trip to Miami plus a couple of short European flights. What exactly do you want them to do.....?

Haven't you claimed on your insurance for the delay?

gregg1

Sorry - but this man has every right to claim what is his right under the law. Whether or not the EU did not give sufficient consideration to the ins and outs before they passed the law, pass it they did. We ordinary people have to abide by laws and regulations as well! With respect to Wolvoman, don't make this guy feel bad - he is perfectly entitled to compensation under the law. Also, the "extraordinary circumstances" clause does NOT cover technical problems. This law was actually passed to try and get these airlines to get their act together and to protect the paying public (thats you and me). By the way, giving the guy 10,000 airmiles is a hell of a lot cheaper to the airline than paying out the compensation, so they are not being that generous after all!

Good luck (again)

wolvoman

gregg1 wrote:

Sorry - but this man has every right to claim what is his right under the law. Whether or not the EU did not give sufficient consideration to the ins and outs before they passed the law, pass it they did. We ordinary people have to abide by laws and regulations as well! With respect to Wolvoman, don't make this guy feel bad - he is perfectly entitled to compensation under the law. Also, the "extraordinary circumstances" clause does NOT cover technical problems. This law was actually passed to try and get these airlines to get their act together and to protect the paying public (thats you and me). By the way, giving the guy 10,000 airmiles is a hell of a lot cheaper to the airline than paying out the compensation, so they are not being that generous after all!

Good luck (again)

The airmiles are actually worth far in excess of any potential EU compensation he might receive.

The clause is about cicumstances beyond the control of the airline, not extraordinary circumstances. Though in this particular case I have no idea whether the fault was within the control of BA - The OP will need to pursue a legal case to prove this.


I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad, I'm merely suggesting that delays occur and when they do, airlines like BA do their utmost to get passengers to their destination as quickly as possible but they will prioritise their highest paying and most loyal customers first. And they are right to do so.

gregg1

sorry wolvoman - did not mean to offend. We will have to agree to disagree as the act does actually refer to "extraordinary circumstances" and the Air Users Council confirms this does not cover technical faults. After 20 years in the legal profession I am still amazed at the abiguity of some of these laws. I do however, still think it is well worth pursuing. It is still a fact that airmiles are cheaper for the airline to provide than the compensation. Obviously, there are some people who would prefer these but the fact is that companies cannot wriggle out of paying compensation to a customer if the law says it should. Of course, safety of passengers is paramount but maybe, someone somewhere has realised that airlines see to be using the "technical fault" get-out a little too often and need to be persuaded to get their act together. Just a thought.

waster_2

WiseInvestor wrote:

Assuming BA have spare jumbos sitting around (which they dont'), how long do you think it would take to find 2 pilots and 15 cabin crew to operate this rescue flight? I'll answer that for you - about of 2 hours. The Captain then has to decide how much fuel he wants - a decision that can't legally be made by anyone else. It takes about 90 minutes to fuel a 747. BA then need to find an available take-off 'slot' out of Heathrow (the third busiest international airport in the world).

Add this to the flight time and it's really not as simple as you make out.

Moving on to leasing aircraft. BA pride themselves on their safety record. I very much doubt they'd 'risk' borrowing an aircraft from some tin-pot airline without first checking their maintenance standards/crew training etc etc. Not a decision to make quickly would you agree?

Why would they need cabin crew for an empty flight? The cabin crew for the return trip and the pilots are all in Miami. The outbound pilots then rest and return with the repaired empty 747. They also have aircraft available at Heathrow to cover technical problems, if they occur at Heathrow, but they do not want the cost of deploying those abroad. S*d the passengers stranded! The plane can be refuelled and the Captain certifies on his arrival that sufficient fuel is on board (or not if he is unhappy). They do not empty the fuel tank of every aircraft when a new captain takes over just so he can measure precisely the last drop of aviation fuel put in to the tanks.

BA like most airlines will put passengers on to other airlines flights if it suit them. Usually when they only have to bump a few. This is no different except a whole aircraft is involved. Indeed, in February BA used what you would call a tin pot airline to serve on their route to Tampa! Many passengers were not best pleased, especially when they enquired after the outbound whether BA would be serving the inbound and were told yes, only to end up back on Mr tinpot again!!! But as I say they are only paying customers and BA and the airline industry generally treat them like sh*t!

WiseInvestor_2

waster wrote:

Why would they need cabin crew for an empty flight? The cabin crew for the return trip and the pilots are all in Miami. The outbound pilots then rest and return with the repaired empty 747

Actually the pilots are the bottleneck here as BA don't keep a few licensed to fly each type sitting around just in case something happens as they're an expensive resource, whereas spare cabin crew are usually kept in a local hotel for such occasions. Standby crews were the norm pre-Privatisation but they're a commercial organisation now with shareholders to pay and competitive fares to beat!

They also have aircraft available at Heathrow to cover technical problems

Not without disrupting another flight going elsewhere. Would you keep an empty aircraft worth £100M 'just in case'? No, nor would BA.

The plane can be refuelled and the Captain certifies on his arrival that sufficient fuel is on board (or not if he is unhappy). They do not empty the fuel tank of every aircraft when a new captain takes over just so he can measure precisely the last drop of aviation fuel put in to the tanks.

'Minimum Uplift' procedures are used to lessen the refuel time but they only really help for planned flights when weights/payload/routes/winds etc are known in advance. Trust me, it's not as simple as you make out!


Greed is an ugly attribute

gregg1

"Greed is an ugly attribute"


and being patronising is not?

richardj_4

Couldn't agree more with WiseInvestor. There appears to be an awful lot of greed on these boards.