Being ripped off by landlord - would appreciate some advice

Mong-Raa

Hi guys,

I've been reading these boards for a while now as I've got into matched betting. I've seen posts in here of a similar nature to my own complaint and I know there are a few landlord types that read and post, so I finally signed up to seek some advice.

I'll try to keep the story short!

In May 2006 we moved into a property in Dundee. My flatmate and I both paid a £250 (one month's rent) deposit (£500 total) and we moved in on a 12 month lease. We didn't sign any inventory and they took the deposit before we moved in, I doubt this is relevant but I now believe it to be against the law, so it's best mentioned.

Just before the lease was up for renewal, we decided that we wanted to extend it for another 12 months. I went to pay my rent and have a chat about extending it, only to see the place boarded up. A couple of weeks later we recieved contact from a local letting agency who told us that they had bought the company out and would be taking over our lease. After a couple of weeks of confusion, everything seemed to settle, we resumed paying our rent and we got the lease extended to the end of May 2008. I asked a few questions and was given reassurances, including about the deposit. We still signed no inventory. All was well.

June 2008, we've moved out. I'm now back in England, which I can see is going to make this tricky. I have been trying to get in touch about the return of our deposit for around 10 days and have been constantly given feeble brush-off type excuses. I sent an angry email and finally got some news. Apparently, when J&E Shepherd took over the lease, they were never given our deposit and therefore they can't and won't return it. They say they are chasing up the previous guy (I doubt it to be honest, they make no profits on deposits and have no incentive to help me now I've moved out) and suggest we do the same.

I argue that a) they should have made sure that they handed everything over properly, especially after assuring me there would be no issues with our deposit - surely there are controls in place to stop this sort of thing? Have they been negligent? I won't be so naive as to just make do with verbal assurances in future, I'll want writing, but of course that doesn't help me any in this case; b) if they knew our account had a big fat 0 by the deposit column, why oh why did they continue to let us live there, knowing that we could have left the place in a right state and they'd have no financial recompense? Every other tenant they have must provide a deposit - why were we so special?; c) if we were never going to get a deposit back, surely then we weren't legally bound to leave the place in a fit state so the 2 hours worth of cleaning we did when we left wasn't legally required - can we bill them for it, if all else fails? Perhaps for the sum of £500?

They know they have messed up, the guy even hinted as much when my ex-flatmate got him on the phone a couple of days ago. They're being allowed to squirm out of it though by the fact that the previous landlord is a bit dodgy (we've since discovered that Trading Standards are watching him) - they are just saying "Oh it's his fault, not ours". But surely they should have pressed him for the money as well as the lease? Surely we've done nothing wrong in all of this and don't deserve to be punished?

My ex-flatmate saw Dundee's CAB people today and although I've not had the full rundown yet as she's not back home, her text message said that they don't think there's anything we can do and a County Court effort probably wouldn't garner anything. That sounds like nonsense to me, I'm going to make an appointment of my own in a different branch to see if I can get any joy. Does anyone here have any advice?

I appreciate it if you've read this far. Cheers!

bobby-boy_2

Hi not being given an invetory is not against the law as you stated. It is fool hardy on the part of the Landlord as they can not claim any deductions against your deposit. So full deposit is due back.
As for taking the deposit before you moved in this is not a problem as long as you recieved a reciept as you can now claim the deposit back throught the small claims court. Get your friend to go to Bell street and pick up the papers.
Claim against the Landlord, you should have been provided with his details when you moved in.
Can you name them missing out a vital letter of course to avoid being sued lol.
Also you said" especially after assuring me there would be no issues with our deposit" chase J+E shepe*ds up if you have paperwork stating this.

Before anyone jumps in with TDS and 3 x deposit DUNDEE is in Scotland so no TDS!!!
We dont have county courts either just pointing it out as you said "a County Court effort probably wouldn't garner anything. That sounds like nonsense to me".

I live in Dundee the boarded up agency wasn't in Albert Street by any chance? If so they have moved to the city Que and are now called City keys.

Mong-Raa

About my "county court" comment - those are my words and I'm clueless, lol. I meant the small claims court. I thought the terms were interchangeable, but obviously not. Just ignore me

The original landlord was based in the India Building at the opposite end of Bell Street to the cop shop, up by the school. Their name comes from two pretty famous rivers I've been told that they've actually taken that place over again, if that's the case we might have to pop in and pay a visit. My ex-flatmate knows where the landlord now works anyway, so we should be able to get hold of him.

Cheers for your prompt response. And I'm sorry to hear that you live in Dundee, you have our sympathy...

hev_2

You can issue a county court summons under the small claims procedure at a County Court.

However, Scotland has a separate legal system to England and the same rules do not apply. If your ex-flatmate is still in Dundee then they can perhaps issue a claim through the Sheriff's Court there, or at least take advice from those who have the experience of the local legal system.

To clarify: The civil law in England and Wales has the same relationship to Scottish law as it does to eg German law and the rules for service of a county court summons to both countries are the same.

silvercar

My comments in red

I argue that a) they should have made sure that they handed everything over properly, especially after assuring me there would be no issues with our deposit - surely there are controls in place to stop this sort of thing? Have they been negligent? I won't be so naive as to just make do with verbal assurances in future, I'll want writing, but of course that doesn't help me any in this case;Agreed, they were negligent in the handover, either they should have taken over the deposit or told you they weren't responsible for it.
b) if they knew our account had a big fat 0 by the deposit column, why oh why did they continue to let us live there, knowing that we could have left the place in a right state and they'd have no financial recompense? Every other tenant they have must provide a deposit - why were we so special?; You were so special because you we already living there. They were taking over a tenancy so could just evict you, but they didn't have to insist on a deposit.
c) if we were never going to get a deposit back, surely then we weren't legally bound to leave the place in a fit state so the 2 hours worth of cleaning we did when we left wasn't legally required - can we bill them for it, if all else fails? Perhaps for the sum of £500?The deposit is designed to ensure you have an interest in handing back the property in the same basic condition you got it. It saves landlords having to take disappearing tenants to court for damage to their properties. Not having a deposit does not negate your contractual obligation to return the property in decent condition, it just provides an incentive for you to do so.

tbs624

In Scotland landlords of private residential property have to be registered with the Local Authority covering the area in which they let property, and have to be approved as 'fit and proper to be letting houses': determining that takes into account any breaches of LL obligations.

Any LL who fails to register can’t legally let property - is s/he does so the local authority can fine the LL and remove their right to claim any rent. If your previous LL wasn’t registered that obviously doesn’t help you now but a complaint to the local authority about the conduct of the one who took over your tenancy may give them a hard nudge in the right direction.

The comment about not getting any joy via the court was probably because your former LL has other business/finance problems or has a particular dodgy "skill" in evading such matters. Sometimes it is not worth pursuing these issues when you have court fees to pay out as well, unless you’d be happy to just get a judgement against him that mucks up his credit record. Even if the hearing did go in your favour, you still have to get the judgement enforced. However, if your friend is still up there the staff at the Sheriff Court can give you helpful info and it may be useful for you to talk it through via:

• Shelter in Scotland - there is a Dundee SHAC ( Shelter Housing Advice Centre) at 1 Courthouse Square Dundee tel:01382 225 544 or email: [EMAIL="Shelterscot@shelter.org.uk"]shelterscot@shelter.org.uk[/EMAIL] Open M,T & Th 10pm -1pm & Weds 1-4pm. There are sample letters here: http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/getadvice/downloads/sample_letters

• Dundee North Law Centre, Top Floor,20 Grampian Gardens Dundee DD4 9QZ tel- 01382 432458

• Welfare Rights, Suite A Market Mew Market Street Dundee DD1 3LA tel- 01382 431167

guppy

The actions of the agents are irrelevant in my opinion. Your contract is solely with the Landlord, and details of the deposit should be mentioned in that contract. Sue him if necessary, maybe start with a strongly worded letter. As tbs624 says, if he is a criminal/a****** you may not get anywhere with this. Personally I'd keep harassing him (in a legal way) in an attempt to irritate him in to returning my cash.

In future, if there is no inventory, simply withhold the last months rent. Its in breach of the contract and common law (in England at least) but there's not much the LL can do about it.

clutton_2

""The actions of the agents are irrelevant in my opinion. Your contract is solely with the Landlord,""

absolutley - sue the LL

KITCHEN1_2

My first question would be do you have something in writing that says a deposit was originally paid ? If not do you ahve a receipt of any kind ,even a cheque stub with the payees details on it. Something in other words that makes it clear you have indeed paid a deposit ?

It is my understanding and who knows I may be wrong. When you take over a property you take over everything to do with that property. So if this company has bought another one out and that includes the tenancy of someone currently renting the property then they also take onboard any rent arrears ,or as in this case the liability to repay a deposit.

If this takeover did not actually include a buying of the property then what I have said may not apply,but I would still think that if there was buy out of a contract then the buyout is deemed to be everything to do with that contract unless exception are stated.
I would not think simply saying we did not receive your deposit from the prior party would be enough to excuse them from their liability to you.
Have you put this to them and given them a 7 day letter of intent to reolve this issue by making payment before any legal action is commenced?