Do i have to pay back holiday if i leave?

lindseykim13

My DH is likely to be leaving his job over the next few weeks but having taken all his holiday entitlement for the year (april-april) is he going to have to pay this back on leaving and how would they get it back? He has been employed there for just over 2yrs so has to work a weeks notice.
They havn't been the nicest of employers so he is expecting to get a hard time when he hands his notice in, is there also anyway to avoid having to go in and still get paid, how would this effect the holiday pay back?

thanks for any help

nutmegman

If you have taken holiday you havent yet acrued then yes you will have to pay it back....say you get 2 days holiday per month, holiday year us april - april and you have used 24 days in may and leave at the end of june you would owe the company 18 days holiday

DaisyFlower

They are entitled to reclaim all the holiday pay from his last wage. It will be pro-rata but it it runs from April to April and we are only in June he'll have had a lot of days over what he had actually "earnt".

Not sure how he would avoid going back in and still get paid, bit like having your cake and eating it!

therealdessie

The company will (most likely) recoup all outstanding monies at leaving - and may bill you for the rest. Therefore not working a notice period would make the matter worse since you'd owe for the holiday, lose a week's pay and be in breach of contract.

How on earth did he take at least 24 days holiday between April and now?

lindseykim13

therealdessie wrote: »

The company will (most likely) recoup all outstanding monies at leaving - and may bill you for the rest. Therefore not working a notice period would make the matter worse since you'd owe for the holiday, lose a week's pay and be in breach of contract.

How on earth did he take at least 24 days holiday between April and now?[/quote

As we went on holiday for 2 weeks the odd day off, afew days in cornwall. He has got a couple saved for xmas and a couple for later in the year which he has booked off in advance. So he hasn't taken the full entitlement but it's going to work out at about £356 he only gets £280 a week does that mean he wont get paid his week in hand or the week he hands the notice in? Will they be billing us the gross amount as obviously the tax has already been taken?

Another point is that he was on completion on his training meant to get a pay rise, he completed 4months ago should he push the point that they owe him for that and come to some sort of agreement? I can see his last week being hell!

littlestar1981

Can't you say you're leaving to work for a competitor and get gardening leave? Get paid but no work the notice period!!
In the United Kingdom, Garden leave (or gardening leave[1]) describes the practice of instructing an employee who is leaving an employer (following a resignation, or having been made redundant or otherwise terminated) to stay away from work during their notice period. The practice is often used to prevent employees from working for the employer's competitors for a period of time.
Employees continue to receive their normal pay during garden leave and are covered by any contractual duties, such as confidentiality agreements, until their notice period expires

therealdessie

lindseykim13 wrote: »

As we went on holiday for 2 weeks the odd day off, afew days in cornwall. He has got a couple saved for xmas and a couple for later in the year which he has booked off in advance. So he hasn't taken the full entitlement but it's going to work out at about £356 he only gets £280 a week does that mean he wont get paid his week in hand or the week he hands the notice in? Will they be billing us the gross amount as obviously the tax has already been taken?

Another point is that he was on completion on his training meant to get a pay rise, he completed 4months ago should he push the point that they owe him for that and come to some sort of agreement? I can see his last week being hell!

They will at the termination of employment tot up all the debits and credits due - so any pay rises due to be made need to be dealt with now before the P45 is issued. They will take back the overdue holidays at net pay (it's a straight reversal, negative time in effect), so likely he will get nothing in his final pay packet, which will be his week in hand, since they can't accrue a holiday allowance until the time has been worked - so if he left this Friday, next Friday he would more than likely get a zero payslip; it's probably not going to be a negotiation.

cazziebo

littlestar1981 wrote: »

Can't you say you're leaving to work for a competitor and get gardening leave? Get paid but no work the notice period!!
In the United Kingdom, Garden leave (or gardening leave[1]) describes the practice of instructing an employee who is leaving an employer (following a resignation, or having been made redundant or otherwise terminated) to stay away from work during their notice period. The practice is often used to prevent employees from working for the employer's competitors for a period of time.
Employees continue to receive their normal pay during garden leave and are covered by any contractual duties, such as confidentiality agreements, until their notice period expires

There is no right to garden leave and it is only used where the ex employee's new employment may compromise the position of the old employer. (hmm not very well explained!) Therefore it's usual in sales or creative roles.

Agree with therealdessie. It's non negotiable - he owes the money and it will have to be paid.

lindseykim13

cazziebo wrote: »

There is no right to garden leave and it is only used where the ex employee's new employment may compromise the position of the old employer. (hmm not very well explained!) Therefore it's usual in sales or creative roles.

Agree with therealdessie. It's non negotiable - he owes the money and it will have to be paid.

Fair enough i'm not disputing that now but they also owe him money it is in his contract that on completion of training he will get the payrise. He owes them in the region of 350 but they also owe him in the region on 150 so you can see why he's not too happy that they are going to take back the full amount when they owe him a significant amount. £150 is a lot of money to us.

booplyboo

Hi

I work in HR/Payroll and there are ways getting around it. (it's breaking the rules but if you can afford/risk the reference, then it might work).

Option 1

If he is paid full sick pay, then go off sick for the week after he intended to leave and be paid (presumably on the friday). Then phone in immediate resignation on the Monday with no intention to work notice period.

Option 2
If no sick pay is paid, then you may have to live with not being paid the week in hand and just hand in immediate resignation the day after pay day.

By immediate resignation, I mean phone in and say he is not going back. For whatever reason (I'm sure you can think of something, not happy in job, can't work for manager anymore etc). It is extreme but will mean that they do not have opportunity to deduct the holiday pay.

They will probably tell you that you will owe them money etc, however depending on the company - I would say it is unlikely that he will be chased for it. Larger companies generally don't bother as it isn't worth the hassle.

Option 3.
If they are making life difficult for him, go off sick with work related stress. Its a bit of a copout but it allows him the opportunity to make them worry. In which case, when he hands in notice - they will probably think he has done them a favour.

I've seen it loads of times to be honest - unfortunately for employers this does happen quite often.

I don't mean to advise him to behave badly - because it would be behaving badly I know that. But if they are not the nicest of employers then so what.

As I said though, he will need to work out whether he can risk losing them as a referee. If not, he will have to swallow the deduction from his pay and grin and bear it. The holiday pay will be a gross deduction and he will probably receive a small tax refund and so he may break even.

Vancat

I frequently deduct excess holiday when our employees leave.
The right to deduct any overpayment forms part of their T's & C's/contract, which they'd have signed on joining.
If there is still a negative pay, even after any tax refund which may occur because of the deduction, we would send a letter asking for the net overpayment within 7 days of leaving.
If this isn't forthcoming, we would take steps to recover the overpayment, using the court if necessary.
It's really not worth trying to avoid repaying the company you're leaving....it could result in a CCJ.:eek:
Just a thought on the missing pay rise after training ... there may have been some clause in the initial contract or training contract which said "On satisfactory completion of training".....perhaps your OH should have queried this when he had completed the training, rather than wait until he was about to leave. If it was just a verbal agreement, that's going to be harder to claim he's owed anything.
VC