partner waiting to go to court to sort out speeding issue..

Deals_2

i dont know if this is the best way forward but at the mometn this is what he has decided to do. he has been going through an area for years that used to be a zone of 40 miles per hour . then suddenly recently they have added a sign after the 40 miles sign saying 30 . he was driving at 39 miles per hour as usual and obviously got a ticket. the fine is £60 + 3 points on licence. he says he wants to go to court and sort this out this way as loads of people have been caught at the same spot when it is a relatively new sign. i wonder if he would actually be worse off going to court myself. any tips appreciated. thanks

Markyt

he needs to look on pepipoo and see what the law is with regard to signage.

anewman

If the signs are there you need to be looking at the speed signs when driving. Yes it's nasty to change a 40 to a 30 overnight and plonk a camera there, but the speed signs are there to be read unfortunately (as my driving instructor tried very well to teach me). If the signs are present and there is one each side of the road, then there is no case - and he will be worse off going to court. I doubt there is a legal requirement for any leaway to be given after a limit has just changed (although there is some case in argument for a moral requirement).

My advice is pay up and accept points. It's not the end of the world, live and learn. It probably won't add much to insurance cost either. Sorry it's probably not what you want to hear but will hopefully save the hassle and extra cost of courts.

Conor_3

If he goes to court and challenges this, basically he's admitting driving without due care. Although he won't be charged with that, claiming you didn't see a large round sign with a big number on it doesn't look good. It pretty much guarantees more points and a larger fine.

There is no defence if the signage is correct.

Markyt

Conor wrote: »

There is no defence if the signage is correct.

Which is why, before going to court, the person concerned needs to find out whether that is the case or not.

bargepole

Deals wrote: »

i dont know if this is the best way forward but at the mometn this is what he has decided to do. he has been going through an area for years that used to be a zone of 40 miles per hour . then suddenly recently they have added a sign after the 40 miles sign saying 30 . he was driving at 39 miles per hour as usual and obviously got a ticket. the fine is £60 + 3 points on licence. he says he wants to go to court and sort this out this way as loads of people have been caught at the same spot when it is a relatively new sign. i wonder if he would actually be worse off going to court myself. any tips appreciated. thanks

Unfortunately, "it used to be 40 mph" isn't a defence that will cut any ice with the Magistrates.

If the signage is legal, the paperwork was correctly served, and the camera is correctly calibrated, there isn't really a valid defence he could use in Court.

Defended cases with a not guilty plea can result in a fine of £100+, 4 points on the licence, and £350-ish in prosecution costs.

Only go to Court if you can find a fatal flaw in their signage, paperwork or camera operation (see pepipoo for examples), otherwise it's an expensive exercise.

anewman

Markyt wrote: »

Which is why, before going to court, the person concerned needs to find out whether that is the case or not.

Seems quite reasonable to assume in the case in question, the driver went past two red circles with the number 30 in them and 2 black squares with a picture of a camera, didn't pay attention to the signs and carried on at 40 because that's what the limit was before - got caught out, are justifiably annoyed as they genuinely believed the limit was 40, and now want to wriggle out of it if they can.

Pew_Pew_Pew_Lasers!

Just because the signage is erected does not necessarily make a speed limit enforceable.

greenman7

then suddenly recently they have added a sign after the 40 miles sign saying 30

The same thing happened in my area - Bangor North Wales. A group of people who were 'caught' by the the speed trap which went there straight away got together to fight it. It turned out that there was a legal mix-up on the speed limit and 3000 people were refunded their fines.

http://www.newswales.co.uk/?section=Transport&F=1&id=11263

Cumbrian_Male

+1 to above

Get onto the county council and ask to view/for a copy of the traffic order for the road which shows when the speed limit was changed from 40 to 30.

No valid traffic order no case to answer.

Kez100

I read it as the 30 has been erected close to the 40 sign, not replaced it.

I have no idea if it can be used as a defence but I do have sympathy. We have an 8 miles stretch of road which has 30, 40 and 50's all over the shot and, add other signs when there are roadworks, and honestly it is more of a risk to read every sign and watch your speedo than it is to just drive sensibly and watch the road (the option which we cannot choose because we get hammered if we go over the sign limits)

I am very much for speed limits but I do understand annoyance at the ridiculous use of differing signs going up and down faster than a coaster at Chessington.