Offered asking price, mostly cash, but not accepted!

Incisor

sirhan_sirhan wrote: »

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I spoke to the new agent, and clarified that the asking price was what the vendor wanted, ie not “offers over”, or “guide price” etc. This was confirmed.

I viewed the house within afew hours, and offered asking price on the spot. The agent thought this would be agreed. However, his colleague called me later that afternoon, to say that the vendors were happy with my offer, and would consider accepting if I were to better it. I was extremely cross, and said that I was not happy at having my time wasted. I told them that the offer was on the table until 5pm that day, and would then be withdrawn if not accepted. I told them that I was not going to pay a penny more than asking.
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Tactical mistake No 1 was to offer full asking. You should have gone under and been prepared to match asking. Sellers, as has already been hinted, resent you from before and want to wring more from you.
Tactical mistake No 2 was to get hot in the head and take the offer back off the table, because when you do go back, they have got you on the move in their direction.

You can try recovering with offers which decrease over time, but it will cause resentment, even if you beat the offer they finally accept. Or you can walk away.

sirhan_sirhan

Thanks again for all of the replies.

Mandi - (I do like your signature by the way!) Thanks for the info, the agent is a member of NAEA. Unfortunately I have been on the wrong end of a poor estate agent when I was trying to sell a house once; also the wife of a colleague is also in the middle of a long litigation regarding a dodgy branch of a well known EA chain. I accept that these experiences might be uncommon, but they have jaundiced my view.

Regardless of whats happening with property prices at the moment , Know one knows what prices will be in 20 years time, but I can safely say , that the house will not be less than the price it is today

Very true, but that is not the point. This is the sort of thinking that has caused the irrational exuberance of the last 10 years. The point to consider is that the money needs to be paid now, rather than in 20 years time. An extra £15k now could make a big dent in the cost of an extension, or school fees.

100k in 1 year...Agent totally un-valued (is that a word) the property.

Tasotti - the way that I look at it is that it was overvalued to the tune of £100k two years ago, and that it represents fair value now.

I feel the vendors will go to any lengths to sell to someone other than you, because no doubt they've been kicking themselves about knocking back your much better offer 2 years ago!

Mrs. Deadline - you have hit the nail right on the head I feel. I think that the vendors will go to any lengths to sell to someone else.

They need to be told very kindly that what was offered then was then, the situation now is very different, it's nobody's fault, you're all at the mercy of the market, etc. etc

This is exactly the conversation that I had with the agent yesterday. I fear though that this will not be communicated to the vendor; it is not a nice conversation to have, and I think that the agent wants an easy life.

Tactical mistake No 1 was to offer full asking

I disagree. We tried this tactic before, on one of the other houses to come on the market in this Road. We were the first to view, and we offered £5k under. The agent came back the next day to say that someone else viewed the house that evening, offered asking price, and the vendor accepted. The house was then taken off the market.

Tactical mistake No 2 was to get hot in the head and take the offer back off the table

Possibly, although I think that the bigger mistake was to reinstate the offer.

You can try recovering with offers which decrease over time

This is what I have planned to do. In the event that my offer is not accepted by Sunday, I will be signing the contract, and reducing my offer by £10k. I will leave the offer on the table, but point out that prices are dropping, and that the offer will not remain at that level indefinitely.

I am resigned to the fact that I am not going to get the house, and to be honest I don't really feel too bad about it. We live in a nice house, we have security of a 12 month contract, and prices are moving in our direction. Even if prices only fall by the 9% that Halifax are now forecasting (my guess is that it will be double digit), this represents a substantial saving.

Thanks again for all of the advice.

Sisyphus

sirhan_sirhan wrote: »

Just thought that I would give you all a quick update.

Went to see agent, who tells me that letters are in the post advising of the position. Seller has had 5 or 6 offers on the property, a couple of which are in excess of asking price, but we are currently the only ones in a proceedable position.

The vendor wants to consider the options, but is still allowing viewings, although only to people that don't already have something to sell!

I pointed out that I am being pushed to sign a renewal on my lease, and that I really needed an answer by this weekend. The agent seemed to think that it will be at least another couple of weeks before the vendor makes a decision, but that they will advise the vendor of my position. He seemed to think that money talks with this vendor, and that the two birds in the bush are worth more to them than the one in hand.

I asked out of interest about what sort of offer I would need to seal the deal quickly, and was told that the vendor was looking for me to increase my offer by £15k. This would still be less than my 2006 offer, and only works out at an extra £2 per day over the 20 years that we plan to be there, but my principles are telling me "no".

So, it seems like I will be renewing my lease this weekend after all.

Will keep you all posted.

I know you like the place and would like to buy it but if I were the EA I'd think it sounds like it's you who is ready to cave in. Maybe they believe that you have to move.
As a solvent potential buyer you were treated very shabbily. Once they had backed away from their original price (lied, basically) the onus was still on you to come up with a higher price for them to turn down again. I would prefer to lose money than do business with dishonest and dishonourable people like this, what other surprises do they have in store for you further forward in the negotiations.

do_it_today!

:rolleyes:

Sisyphus wrote: »

I know you like the place and would like to buy it but if I were the EA I'd think it sounds like it's you who is ready to cave in. Maybe they believe that you have to move.
As a solvent potential buyer you were treated very shabbily. Once they had backed away from their original price (lied, basically) the onus was still on you to come up with a higher price for them to turn down again. I would prefer to lose money than do business with dishonest and dishonourable people like this, what other surprises do they have in store for you further forward in the negotiations.

I agree with Sisyphus!
Also you are not desperate to move sign up for another 12 months wait and see. A transaction that should be soo straight forward due to you strong position is being such hard work - I dont think this is the house for you....

bandraoi

You want the house, you admit that'll it'll be difficult to find a better one and that it's in the location you want at the size and price you want.
The market may reach a bottom, but the house you want may not be on sale at the bottom of the market.

Why not offer a sweetener to complete by date X?

franklee

sirhan sirhan,

Why is the vendor moving and have they got somewhere to go to lined up? Will they be buying again and will that create a chain from that side?

I am asking so as to judge the time pressures the vendor is under.

How badly do they need a quick sale or if they have yet to find somewhere then they or their vendors could be time wasters themselves, or they may find somewhere they don't want to lose at which point they may get more reasonable.

Knowing the motivations of who you are negotiating with is helpful.

sirhan_sirhan

I would prefer to lose money than do business with dishonest and dishonourable people like this, what other surprises do they have in store for you further forward in the negotiations

Sisyphus - exactly the reason that we withdrew our offer initially. In hindsight I think that we were foolish to reinstate our offer. My debate at the moment is whether to withdraw the offer after I renew my lease, or whether to reduce it. It is immaterial really, I don't think that we will be getting this house.

The market may reach a bottom, but the house you want may not be on sale at the bottom of the market.

Why not offer a sweetener to complete by date X?

Bandroi - this house might not be on sale at the bottom; but there is a long way down before we hit the bottom, and there will be plenty of alternatives. I am not going to increase my price on principle, and for the reasons that Sisyphus outlined. Do it today is quite right too, this should be the simplest transaction ever, the fact that it is floundering at the start line is a clear indicator that I should walk away.

Why is the vendor moving and have they got somewhere to go to lined up? Will they be buying again and will that create a chain from that side?

Vendor is now living abroad, although at least one family member did come back a couple of weeks ago to put the property on the market. I don't know how long they are back for. House is (almost) empty, and is being sold without a chain. The agent has not been very forthcoming when questioned about the long term intentions of the vendor, or even which continent they are now living on. When I viewed the house in 2006, the family were intending to travel the world, and weren't sure when they would be back.

slipp_digby

Sorry if I am stating the bleeding obvious, but you are the only proceedable offer on the table, so in fact there are no offers above asking price on the house which are valid.

Although withdrawing your offer, and your historical offer may have weakened your position slightly you should stick to your guns. The vendor no doubt feels stupid at the prospect of selling it to you for less than your previous offer - its not your problem. If they end up chasing the market down pride will be very expensive.

I have to say I disagree with Mandi (sorry mandi) - DO NOT ask for it to "remain on file". I learnt the hard way that all offers you make should be clear and time bound - which you did originally with your deadline of 5pm the day you offered asking price.

An offer which says "x is on the table - let me know when it suits you" will just give them the ammo to push other potential buyers into making offers over asking, or the cheeky sods will come back on two months time expecting your offer of "x" to remain even if the market has fallen further.

LandyAndy

mrs_deadline wrote: »

Sirhan, I feel the vendors will go to any lengths to sell to someone other than you, because no doubt they've been kicking themselves about knocking back your much better offer 2 years ago!

.

Nail. Head. Hit.:T

Edit: posted before I read to the end of the thread.

sirhan_sirhan

slipp digby - I like your advice. Thankyou.

I have pointed out to the agent on two occasions that my offer is the only proceedable one, to which they have replied that other viewers have offered more. My reply on both occasions has been "but they haven't got the funds to back up their offer". At this point the agent usually goes into some waffle about there being alot of interest in the houses that the other prospective purchasers are themselves marketing.

I am going to draft a letter, to post on my way home, advising that my offer stands until 1pm on Sunday. I did think about adding something along the lines of it then dropping by £10k, but that just keeps me on the hook as far as they are concerned.

Thanks again.