Selling in England, Buying in Scotland - Q's

Noot_2

We're looking to sell up our house in the Midlands, and move to the West side of Glasgow (hopefully). The more I read on this, the more I'm getting confused. I've therefore got a few questions to try to clarify some points, and there will probably be more as time goes on.

Here's the first - How do things work as far as timings go with selling and buying? Would we have to sell our house first before making an offer in Scotland. If we wait till we've exchanged contracts, then look for a house, it doesn't leave us a lot of time (especially seeing as though any house would be a 10hour round trip to view). I'm assuming we'll sell up down here, then rent for a while up in Scotland whilst looking for a house. Or are there other options?

Another point which is confusing me is the offers thing - I've read somewhere that you can make only one offer, and somewhere else saying you can make more than one offer!

What have other people done who've gone through selling in England and buying in Scotland?

Offers Over - If a property is up for offers over £200k, I assume I could offer £200k exactly??

Fixed Price - does this usually reflect the fact that the house is proving difficult to sell?

Another big spanner in the works is getting the kids schools sorted. Even if we do go into rented, we're going to have to rent in the catchment area of the school we want, which then ties us into that area. I suppose there is no answer to that, and we'd just need to do our homework on the areas before committing to schools etc.

Don't know if anyone lives in the areas we're considering - but the shortlist is currently, Bishopton, Erskine and Helensburgh.

Kat_9Lives

Hi, I'm afraid I can't advise re selling in England but in Scotland you could make an offer subject to survey etc your solicitor wouldn't allow you to sign the missives until your English sale had passed the point where it could fall through.

You can make as many offers as you like unless a property goes to a closing date, which in the current climate is unlikely.

If a property is offers over they are generally looking for 20% over that (in most areas) if the property hasn't sold they might reduce the offers over price or more often than not put it to a fixed price. Fixed prices tend to be starting just over 20% of the offers over price though! If a place doesn't sell then between £2k and £5k reductions are being made.

You'd have to do your research on the area you want to buy in (property bee is an excellent place to start) as these are sweeping generalisations and Glasgow is a big place.

Kat_9Lives

I should add you dont' have to offer the full Fixed Price but that gives a v good idea of what they are expecting, you could offer under it but it would depend how much they want/need to sell how far under they'd go. It wouldn't be like England where they'd be happy with 15% (or whatever the going rate is) under their price.

twinklefish

I'm not in the Glasgow area but can tell you a few things from my recent experience.

You can make as many offers as you like on a property and do a bit of negotiation - I just bought a house by making 3 increasing offers over the course of a week until we reached a price somewhere between my first offer and what they initially said they would accept.

After you view a property, you can ask your solicitor to 'put in a noted interest'. This just means that you will be informed of anything happening with a property i.e. someone makes an offer, the property goes to a closing date, changes to fixed price etc. It does not commit you to anything. If there is multiple noted interest, the property will probably go to a closing date where interested buyers submit best and final offers by a time on a specified date - my flat sold this way with 4 interested people putting in offers. The seller then picks the most favourable one. It's not always the highest bid that wins, I know someone who was 3rd highest price but because they did not have a property to sell and could fulfill an early entry date they got the house.

A property can sometimes be a fixed price because it's difficult to sell but, it can also be down to the sellers circumstances. Where I am, properties are selling but some are taking a little more time to sell than say, this time last year. I think because of this, some sellers, who already have bought another property and have an entry date, are moving to a fixed price to sell quickly. It doens't necessarily mean there is anything wrong with the property.

You need to speak to a local solicitor where you are buying. They will be able to give you an idea of what sort of percentage over the offers over prices properties in the area are fetching in the current market. You should be able to get a free first appointment and a quote for fees. Most large towns and cities in Scotland have a solicitors property centre and usually most local solicitors are members. This means you can search the property centre for properties rather than having the trawl round loads of solicitors individually!

Timing the whole buying and selling thing can be a nightmare. I sold my flat first and my buyers wanted a long entry date so that put me in a better position for buying a house. I new exactly how much money I had and had a date to aim for. Renting would maybe give you the same advantage.


Tx

Kat_9Lives

Something that just struck me, in Scotland and in my experience it is usual to get your solicitor to act for you in making an offer. That's to say you don't phone the agent yourself, your solicitor would make an offer subject to survey or whatever you have decided is appropriate. I get the impression in England that offers are initially made verbally and the whole process seems alot less formal, possibly due to it being possible to pull out much later in England.

I'd urge you to take advice from your solicitor so that you don't get tied to anything before it's appropriate. Let's face it you will be paying them to act for you anyway!

Noot_2

Thanks for your advice Kat_9Lives and twinklefish

We're in the process now of having the Estate Agents round our house in England to see what they say. We're going to price the house "competitively", and expect to be knocked down (then knocked down again by the Surveyor!)

From what I've seen, I believe we'd be better off with an English Solicitor to take care of the sale down here, and a Scottish one for the purchase up there. Very odd prospect having to speak to Solicitors about viewing houses instead of Estate Agents.

I take it once a property goes to a closing date the offer is binding if the seller accepts?

beecher

Noot wrote: »

I take it once a property goes to a closing date the offer is binding if the seller accepts?

The offer is binding once the missives have been exchanged.

Definitely a good idea to have a Scottish solicitor to deal with the transactions here . I would also keep an eye on propertybee - Bishopton is at a sort of standoff situation at the moment with a lot of properties way over priced and refusing to drop. Normally houses go very quickly, but not at the moment. Bishopton/Erskine both have the same secondary school - Park Mains.

Have you thought of East Renfrewshire? Newton Mearns might be an option and the schools are very good.

mitchaa

twinklefish wrote: »

I'm not in the Glasgow area but can tell you a few things from my recent experience.

You can make as many offers as you like on a property and do a bit of negotiation - I just bought a house by making 3 increasing offers over the course of a week

This is misleading, as it does not always work like this.

The house i bought had a closing date, so i only had 1 bid. It was only known on the closing date if my bid was succesful or not. (I had to wait 3 weeks) There was no way to negotiate, if my bid wasn't the highest out of the bids then i 'lost' the house.

Its a frustrating system as you honestly dont know how much to overbid by.

General rule of thumb is 15-25% OO, however ive just recently witnessed an OO £300k property selling for £410k.

O.P...If you see a house with OO £200k for example, this doesn't mean that that the house is valued at this amount, it will probably be valued around the £230k bracket so when you see OO £200k etc dont assume that anything over this is a waste of money, it doesn't work like that. The same house may revert to a fixed price a month down the line at £240k.

There are more OO properties in Scotland than FP properties making the closed bidding system more common.

Infact over the last couple of years with friends and family buying in Scotland this has been the complete norm. (Ie 1 bid closed bidding system )

The closed bidding system only usually happens if there is more than 1 interest in the property. If you are lucky enough to find a property that no-one else wants then yes you can negotiate from the OO price, but its exactly that offers over, not offers under.

I suppose it depends on the home as to what selling option it will have. More than 1 interest = Closed bid system.

beecher

mitchaa wrote: »

, if my bid wasn't the highest out of the bids the sellers received then i 'lost' the house.

Not necessarily - a relative just had her offer accepted even though it was the lowest one. The sellers were desperate to sell as they'd exchanged missives on a new property and my relative was the only one who could possibly exchange missives within the 5 week deadline.

Where the OP is looking, closing dates aren't the norm at the moment - things are obviously very different where you are. Also, there's no such thing as a general rule of thumb when it comes to % over the o/o as each estate agent looks at things very differently. Property bee comes into its own here as the OP can look at what prices are fixed at.

mitchaa

beecher wrote: »

Not necessarily - a relative just had her offer accepted even though it was the lowest one. The sellers were desperate to sell as they'd exchanged missives on a new property and my relative was the only one who could possibly exchange missives within the 5 week deadline.

Where the OP is looking, closing dates aren't the norm at the moment - things are obviously very different where you are. Also, there's no such thing as a general rule of thumb when it comes to % over the o/o as each estate agent looks at things very differently. Property bee comes into its own here as the OP can look at what prices are fixed at.

How does your relative know it was the lowest bid?

If i received a bid of £200k from couple x who had to sell their home in order to buy mine and £199k from couple Y who were FTB, then i'd probably sacrafice the £1k and go with the FTB's, so yes you're right highest bid doesn't always win but in the majority of cases it does.

If the difference was £10k, i'd hold off and go with couple x.

There is a general rule of thumb in Scotland, walk into any estate agent, ask anyone that has bought a home or bid for a home in Scotland and im sure they'll say somewhere in the region of 10-25% is the norm. That i would say is a general rule of thumb (Shall i do a google )

The housing market is in tatters at the moment anyway so i would not advise moving at moment. England is seeing falls, Scotland is still lagging behind and hasn't caught up yet. You dont want to lose twice.

I suspect the popularity of the way you've described to buy a Scottish home is purely down to the fact the market has dried up and there are far less people buying so instead of 5 people interested in each property, there is now only 1 party hence the negotiations etc.

Anyway, its just to make the O.P aware of the both ways of buying in Scotland. (Its still completely normal over my neck of the woods for closed bid system)

mitchaa

Additionally, watch out for the missives trap...

I nearly fell into it... Mortgage lender was dragging their heels releasing the funds, i had said i was moving in on 16th, on 14th my solicitor still hadn't received the funds.

All hell broke loose on the 15th, i was on the phone for hours, solicitor got the funds late on the 15th and we completed on the 16th.

If it wasn't for my persistence i would have been fined £50 every day over (Thats £1550pm if it stretched that far)

Have a read of this thread about missive fees...

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=937587&highlight=missives