Faulty Used Car

Bossyboots

I have done some checking on this and "fit for purpose" is not covered in relation to private sellers. However, as the seller said the car was in good condition if the OP can prove that it was not, then there is a breach of contract. What constitutes good condition will be open to question but I would say it is a fair bet that a head gasket problem would not be deemed as such. The other issue though would be whether the seller really would have been expected to be aware of the problem on selling (I don't think there are many among us who would not surmise this problem was the reason for selling the car). I am not sure how relevant the price paid would be so the fact there is no receipt should not be a problem. It would be different if the seller had said they would make no guarantees about the condition but the price reflects that, but they do seem to have said it was in good condition.

If the ad says it was in good condition and the garage are prepared to provide a statement/give evidence that the seller should have known about the head gasket then it would be worth pursuing. The seller may try to produce his own evidence that the problem was not one he would necessarily have been aware of as has been indicated by a poster here. I think it entirely likely that the court would award in favour of the OP but he needs to be absolutely sure of his technical facts from the start.

sweetnest

Thanks for all your replies so far.

We have just come back from the garage and the faults he has found so far (without looking over the rest of the car) are endless, from what i can remember, we need a new head gasket kit, new radiator, new hoses, alternator belt, thermastat, engine flushing , loads more, too many to list.

The price for the parts will be at least £500 WITH OUT VAT and labour.

So, there is no way we are getting it repaired

We have sent the letter via recorded delivery to the seller giving him 7 days to get back to us, if we haven`t heard from him we will sell it for spares/repairs and sue for the remainder.

It is such a shame as the car had only done 67,000 miles and the body work was lovely.

Fran

Get a quote from another garage too if you can.

Another thing about the small claims court if you go that way is that even if he has to pay you some money, if he is on Jobseekers Allowance eg. or has a low income they might tell him to repay at £1 per week or something and if he doesn't it would then be hard to chase him.

Bossyboots

I really need to ask this. Did you even check the car or take it for a drive before parting with your money?

I agree with Fran that you should get this checked out by another garage as well.

Also, are the faults found ones which actually prevent you driving your car or things that are worn but not at the end of their lifespan yet? I drove a car with a dodgy radiator for ages before we did anything about it and then we didn't actually replace it. Is the alternator belt really so worn that it is about to go? If so, it could well be argued that if you had checked the car thoroughly or got a qualified mechanic to do so, you would have spotted it before buying.

If you present these faults as your case to answer in proceedings, you are going to have to show that the level of wear and tear was unacceptable in a car sold as in good condition.

I think you may struggle with this from what you have said so far. If you buy a car for that price that has done that number of miles, you are not going to get everything as new and I think it may be very difficult to prove that the faults were more than you would expect in respect of the age, mileage and price of the car.

You may get lucky and the seller will not know the legal position and stump up some cash or not defend any proceedings brought. However, from the experience of my friends, the sort of person who sells a car in that state is well aware of their rights and those of the buyer.

As Fran has said, even if you do get judgement against him, you cannot guarantee you will ever get paid or you may only get a paltry amount a week. You need to think long and hard about whether the car was really in worse than "good condition" for its spec and whether you can prove that before getting embroiled in proceedings that could drag on.

sweetnest

Thanks for the replies

In answer to bossyboots, my husband did take it on a test drive and he twice checked under the bonnet and checked the oil etc, he saw nothing untoward, he then drove it the 7 miles home and it was fine

The only time he realized something may be amiss was when he checked the engine the following day and noticed the expansion tank was empty, he filled it up, checked again later and it had gone

We pointed this out to the mechanic and the rest you know, we saw the mechanic stick his finger in the expansion tank and it was full of gunk.

We have had to drive it to and from the garage (3 min drive) and the car starts first time, is smooth, no black smoke, infact to me it is a perfect car

maybe we should take it for a second opinion, not mentioning anything to the other garage?

nadnad

seriously - I don't think you have a hope in hell. I would take this as a lesson - either buy from a "reputable" dealer or take someone with you who knows about cars. Does the car have a valid MOT certificate on it? If it does I wonder how this effects the trading standards view that:-

"Whether you buy privately or from a trader, you are entitled to expect the vehicle to be capable of passing an MOT test when you buy it"

I mean you bought the car and test drove it and thought it was fine - how can you prove that the seller didn't think it was fine also. I mean you test drove it, you looked under the bonnet and drove it home and it was all fine.

I think you'd have a difficult time proving this. Also am I right in saying that if you take this to a small claims court - if you get a solicitor involved you cannot claim the costs back from the vendor even if you win - it may cost you a lot to get that far. At the end of the day if its an older car its going to have things wrong with it that may not appear obvious to the untrained eye - but I would imagine if you took any older car into a garage they are going to come up with quite a list of "faults".

Bossyboots

I would strongly recommend you take it to another garage without mentioning anything about what the first has told you.

A continuously emptying expansion tank would be a giveaway that there was at the very least a radiator problem. I just topped mine up regularly until I sorted my radiator out and I think an obvious problem like that would seal the fate of the seller and throw into dispute his claim of it being in good condition. My expansion tank only needed refilling weekly and my leak was such that when the engine was hot and I stopped the car at a junction for example, steam would pour out of the front. It was therefore impossible to avoid knowing something was wrong. Whether you could prove the other faults are not in good condition for the spec of the car is debatable but I would certainly argue that knowledge of a defective radiator was sufficient to prevent the label "good condition" being appropriate.

Bossyboots

nadnad wrote:

seriously - I don't think you have a hope in hell. I would take this as a lesson - either buy from a "reputable" dealer or take someone with you who knows about cars. Does the car have a valid MOT certificate on it? If it does I wonder how this effects the trading standards view that:-

"Whether you buy privately or from a trader, you are entitled to expect the vehicle to be capable of passing an MOT test when you buy it"

I mean you bought the car and test drove it and thought it was fine - how can you prove that the seller didn't think it was fine also. I mean you test drove it, you looked under the bonnet and drove it home and it was all fine.

I think you'd have a difficult time proving this. Also am I right in saying that if you take this to a small claims court - if you get a solicitor involved you cannot claim the costs back from the vendor even if you win - it may cost you a lot to get that far. At the end of the day if its an older car its going to have things wrong with it that may not appear obvious to the untrained eye - but I would imagine if you took any older car into a garage they are going to come up with quite a list of "faults".

I would agree with this except that as I have put above, a leaking radiator is pretty hard to miss when you own a car and is maybe the one thing on which the seller's claim of the car being in good condition will fall down.

My own view is that it is pointless to try and salvage anything from this, galling though it is and if the letter already sent does not have any result, it may well be throwing good money after bad.

Fran

There is some info about small claims court on the Citizens Advice website - Adviceguide.

Vic_980

sweetnest wrote:

We have just come back from the garage and the faults he has found so far (without looking over the rest of the car) are endless, from what i can remember, we need a new head gasket kit, new radiator, new hoses, alternator belt, thermastat, engine flushing , loads more, too many to list.

The price for the parts will be at least £500 WITH OUT VAT and labour.

I would get another garage to look at it. It sounds like the garage is milking it.

An emptying expansion tank doesn't automatically mean you have a leaky radiator. It is more likely to be something far simpler such as the thermostat housing gasket or a damaged hose, which would cost a couple of quid to replace. I think the garage is going overboard by suggesting that you basically replace the entire cooling system.

The alternator belt is something which experiences wear and tear and I think you would be on dangerous ground to say it was a fault. It may be worn, but if it still runs the alternator then it is not faulty.

If you are going to go after the seller for money then I would first ask them for a refund. If you have no joy and you wish to pursue them, you really need a professional inspection done on the car, with a written report (e.g. an RAC inspection). This will give your case a bit of clout and will look a lot better than a scribbled quote from a garage who are not going to give an independent view anyway. This is of course going to cost money and you have to decide if it is worth pursuing this far.