Help please - Rogue Customers Again!!!

breezeblock

First post so excuse length. I was asked to give a price for some building work for a friend of a friend. It was a big job, and I was given the plans and submitted an estimate for the job. Then I was asked to give another estimate for just the structural work which came to about half the price. They decided to accept my smaller estimate. I sent work schedules, and as they had other contractors doing stuff I told them exactly when they needed to do their bit to tie in with the work. I had arranged staged payments for the work. Along the way they started asking for extra large jobs to be done. I agreed prices with them and did them alongside the original job as they were pestering me they needed them doing urgently, and they were friends of friends. The cost of the original work was paid but there was a considerable amount of extras, mostly done by people I had to pay like joiners and plasterers. When I asked for some of the money for the extra work they said I had not done all the work. They gave me a list which was virtually all the work on the original estimate that cost double. They said I needed to do it as its on the plans. I explained that I was doing the work on the estimate they accepted, but they just keep going on that I have to do everything on the plans or they won't pay me. There is about 2 weeks work and a shed load of materials on there that I never priced for. Can anyone advise me where I stand here? As far as I'm concerned the work on the estimate is all I contracted to do. Are they riht demanding that I complete the whole job on the plans? Heeeeelp!!!

vix2000

seems a common occurance nowadays. My sympathy and good luck.

baldelectrician

I would write to them asking if they now wish to go with the original (higher) estimate or the revised (lower) estimate.
Do you have a signed acceptance of ANY estiamte?

I think where you went wrong was not to get the extra work in writing - it is a common mistake that I also have made in the past.

I now concentrate on smaller jobs, and NO main contractors.

breezeblock

Thanks. They had their own elecrician who the same has happened to. He did £2500 ofextra work they agreed to and they wont pay him until hes done more stuff he never agreed to. His stuff only equates to about 1/2 to1 day so he says it worth doing to get his dosh. (Unless they move the goalposts again). I didnt get signed acceptance of estimate but think I have email acceptance of small one somewhere. Also now the jobs just about done theyre saying theyre holdingback 10% for 3 months and 5% for 6 months. I would never have agreed to this as it is my first job, as they well know and I have to pay my lads and suppliers. Can they just decide to do this?

baldelectrician

The email acceptance should be a legal acceptance as it will be time and date stamped, and tracible to them.

Send them a copy of the email (by return email) and a list of the new works.

You are in a stronger position as you have a paper trail.

Invoice them accordingly, give them 7 days to pay. Send reminder and final 7 day notice and take court action. Am about to do this my self - giving them until today.

You CAN prove you had an arrangement to do the origianl works, and that you have done this and more.

cozasmom

This sounds tricky situation - did you put all your estimates in writing ? including the additional work, was all the staged payments put in writing. One important thing did you say that materials remained your property until payment received. How much do they owe you ? . From my experience I would steer clear from going to court as they appear to know how to play the system. You are only contracted to do the work you quoted for, plus the additional as you agreed. Do you still owe the joiner and other trade their money ? , I know this is not a nice thing to say but I would consider going to see them with the other guys who are also owed money and try and bully them that way - after all they are bullying you into doing more wotk for nothing. I speak from experience if you go to court this will cost you thousands and you are not guaranteed to win, they will just keep coming back with additionals and you end up with them potential suing you for thousands. Somep people you cannot reason with and they play the system. If you member of builidng federation they will usually give free advice. Failing that tohether with other poeple owed monet threaten to demolish all the wor
k already done drastic I know but sometimes its the oly way......

breezeblock

The kitchen fitter has threatened to go and remove the kitchen he fitted them, but surely he'd get done for trespass or something. Always some law to protect wrong uns.

cozasmom

Not sure exactly re the law but I do know you have to be careful - but I was just saying to go to see them all together and show a stength of force not actually do anything illegal and see what the reaction is. How many trades are actually owed money and do you all usually work together ( we have trades we regualrly work with on our contracts) then maybe all put together and one of you go and pay to see a solicitor and see how you all stand and what you can and cannot do. I think it classed as reasonable behaviour but this is a fine line. One thing see/talk to a solicitor who deals with cases like this. You must try to work together to get your money back - strength in numbers ...

breezeblock

Sorry for delay. The mutual friend offered to mediate but they have declined. Basically I have the original email communicaton where they were given an estimate or the complete job, start to finish, and then they asked for an estimate for the structural work, which they told us the price it should come in at. This was about half the price of the invoice for the full job, so I had to take a lot of work out of the original estimate. I have an email from them saying they want to go ahead with the smaller estimate but wanted some other extra work doing aswell. I have all estimates sent to them for the extra work they asked for. They kept pushing for the extra work to be done while I was doing the structural work. They paid the staged payments for the main structural job in full, it is the extra work that is the problem. They sent me a list as long as your arm of jobs they want doing which arent on any estimate Ive given them. Including replacing all the lead pipe outside the house which they say should be part of the central heating fitting, and a wall I built at their request for their neighbour between the houses and didnt charge they say isnt good enough and i should buy (at my expense) copings and paint it to math her house. This and umpteem other jobs totally irrelevant to any estimate. If I dont do it they say they wont pay. full stop. I stopped work when i knew they had no intention of paying me. There are a few finishing off bits to do, but If I do them they still wont pay me unless i do their long list of free work. The friend who tried to mediate is a very intellegent man, and agreed they were being unreasonable in what they were expecting me to do. My estimate is very clear about what is included in it. They just pedantically say I should do everything on their plans, which is, in essence the original complete job I also estimated for at double the cost. Is there anywhere on line or a forum where you can get legal advice as I dont know what else to do.

Bismarck

Hi, really sorry to hear about this. They're taking the p#ss and can only imagine how unpleasant it is for you.

First thoughts are citizens advice bureau and a small claims court if you don't want to see a solicitor YET. Before you go official, play nicely and get as much evidence as you can - especially photos if you can without causing too much upset. Plan for a hearing and legal dispute and work backwards from there....compile what evidence you need to explain the situation -e.g. take photos of the stuff you've bought and paid for and show it being used on the job so that a judge can see that you've paid £X and can understand your loss and rule in your favour. Once you've built up a firm case you can talk with a bit more assurance about where you're going next with this and they should see reason....

good luck!

olly300

OP you don't need to pay a solicitor.

Do as baldelectrican said and start the process to small claims court action.

I would strongly suggest in your first letter demanding payment you state exactly the time and date of the email where they agree to the estimate of the work you have done, and also state you will do no more work for them until they pay the work you have already done.

If you do have telephone conversations with them make sure you make detailed notes of what was said.

I would also get in touch with the other trades and tell them you are doing this as well.

Unless you were working with the other trades in some form of legal partnership then you each should submit your own claims.

And while the kitchen fitter may be done for tresspass, if he is clever and is invited into do remedial work he can remove the kitchen and the people will have no come back unless they are willing to spend money which they don't seem to want to.