The BEST SIPP ?

dunstonh

I would certainly consider a Personal pension if there is one that can:
- allow me to invest in (say) 50 unit trust funds from a selection of 300
- allow me to invest in Gilts
- provide online access
- provide drawdown facilities

Do they exist?
If not, what am I asking for that is the problem?

Yes. However, not with online execution only providers.

Gatser, didnt you say somewhere that you had protected rights? In which case a fund supermarket pension may be the appropriate choice. It will meet your criteria in most areas (over 1000 unit trust funds) but wont allow direct investment into gilts. Although gilt funds and money market funds could be used. There are personal pensions that can do everything you want and protected rights although I dont think it would be worth the costs just to access gilts.

You are going to have to compromise somewhere. SIPPS cant take protected rights until 2012 (if current news is correct) and the better personal pensions cannot take direct investments (within a reasonable cost).

Gatser

dunstonh wrote: »

There you go then. Two fee based IFAs that think SIPPs are overrated.

Are you saying that a personal pension would be BETTER than a SIPP?
My GPPP will not let me have more than 14 funds, one reason I wanted out.

dunstonh wrote: »

I think the problem here though is that Gatser wants to do DIY and not use an IFA and the DIY options are mainly SIPPs. No suprise when you see the commission generated to the likes of HL on their SIPP.

But IFA charges come out of my pocket directly.(I do not object to IFAs earning their fees, provided they are accountable for bad advice)
Trail commission was not my money in the first place, so I do not see the relevance of this. In fact the likes of HL offer discounts on the initial charges which I do benefit from.

dunstonh wrote: »

The SIPP is not the cheapest option and the ones mentioned are not the best. However, they are generally the best on the DIY route.

So what is the cheapest option, that can offer equal flexibility to a SIPP?

...and what do you view as "the Best" SIPP?

Gatser

EdInvestor wrote: »

Yes you could do that.You can take benefits from PR money at the same time as non-PR money now (ie age 50).Would you then reinvest that annuity money - in your ISA perhaps so it's outside the tax net?Would taking the extra income now have any bad tax effects?

I would look at protecting any such income from excessive tax, yes.
One of my overall objectives is to avoid paying 40% tax.

dunstonh

Are you saying that a personal pension would be BETTER than a SIPP?

Cant say for sure. I know a personal pension provider that can offer 1000 unit trusts, take protected rights, do drawdown, has online valuations, free fund switches and can rebate some of the natural trail commission. It cant do direct investments though so that eliminates gilts.

My GPPP will not let me have more than 14 funds, one reason I wanted out.

Thats because its a GPPP and not a IPPP. Group schemes often limit fund choices so not to confuse the typical employee. Most individual personal pensions have fund choices of over 100 nowadays.

But IFA charges come out of my pocket directly.(I do not object to IFAs earning their fees, provided they are accountable for bad advice)
Trail commission was not my money in the first place, so I do not see the relevance of this. In fact the likes of HL offer discounts on the initial charges which I do benefit from.

Trail commission goes to the IFA. The cost of advice with an IFA can be very small in these cases. In execution only basis, you may find its cheaper if you have a large enough fund as the IFA may be happy for you to pick all the funds and take 0.25% trail instead of 0.5%. Some of the pension providers to IFAs factory gate the unit trusts so you get the trail stripped out. Agreeing a fee to use one of those without any trail taken could be better.

Gatser

dunstonh wrote: »

Cant say for sure. I know a personal pension provider that can offer 1000 unit trusts, take protected rights, do drawdown, has online valuations, free fund switches and can rebate some of the natural trail commission. It cant do direct investments though so that eliminates gilts.

OK.... I give up..... who is this fantastic company?...please do tell.
Thanks

EdInvestor

dunstonh wrote: »

SIPPS cant take protected rights until 2012 (if current news is correct) .

Not so: SIPPS should be able to take PR money in October.

The recent announcement involving PR money and 2012 relates only to the type of annuity which can be bought - which is normally not of much interest to people wanting SIPPs and drawdown anyway.

whiteflag_3

Gatser wrote: »

I have assumed 4% growth... not too ambitious.
(unless someone thinks otherwise...)

So why do you need access to 50-300 units trusts etc if a 4% return is all you need?
Wont an average balanced managed fund achieve this net of charges?

If thats the case you could access that through a PP with all the other bells and whistles you require for 0.6-1% amc.

Going back to my original post it would appear your "box" is in good shape and you dont need to start messing with its contents, so do you really think its worth putting your future financial secuirty at risk, just to be able to say youve got the latest "fashion item"?

ps If you have calculated 4% is what YOU need , it doesnt matter what anyone else thinks ! Its your life after all

robnoblewarren

> My protected rights are in my GPPP (locked away until I get to NRD: 60)(Its a long story but true!)

You can unlock these in October, probably, if the new regs come in,

>Is this of any use for a suggestion or two please? I am favouring HL or SIPPDEAL at the moment but just wanted someone to tell me that I am making a silly mistake (and why!)

Not silly. Selftrade, ODL, Hoodless Brennan, any of them are fine you're looking for good pension administrators like EPML linking up with reasonable online brokers.

To compute whether you should use drawdown or not, the usual method is to build a financial model of your future life, and run through a couple of hundred likely scenarios for each of 15 ages, converting everything to an annuity at age 60, 61, 62, 63.... Usually it works out 60 is best.

Gatser

robnoblewarren wrote: »

> My protected rights are in my GPPP (locked away until I get to NRD: 60)(Its a long story but true!)

You can unlock these in October, probably, if the new regs come in,

Unfortunately...not true (for me)
My PR money is in a GPPP along with WITH PROFITS money and I cannot "part transfer" out, unless I am happy to suffer a whopping great big 25% MVA on the WP.

EdInvestor

Gatser wrote: »

I would look at protecting any such income from excessive tax, yes.
One of my overall objectives is to avoid paying 40% tax.

In that case I would certainly consider taking benefits at 50 with 25% TFC and a level annuity and then feeding the post-tax income into your annual maxi ISA and reinvesting in unit trusts which are likely to perform at a better level than 4%.That way you will incur no penalty and hopefully end up with a higher income which is also increasingly tax free at retirement.

A discount broker which rebates charges is what you need for the maxi ISA, eg
https://www.h-l.co.uk

Alternatively you could ask SL about putting the fund into drawdown now using their SIPP for the non PR money and assured funds for the PR portion. They might not impose the MVA if you did it this way.You could then transfer out later to a cheaper SIPP after October when they change the rules on PR money ( insurers can offer PR drawdown now). Put the 25% TFC in the ISA as before and take max GAD income to reinvest as well.