NHS Student Bursaries Reclaim! HELP!!

sweetcakes_2

I am an Irish Student who came to London to study nursing over 2 years ago. When I accepted a place in Uni I received letters to my Irish home address from the NHS Bursary informing me of my bursary entitlements which was over 7K per year.

At the end of 2nd year I chose the Degree pathway even though I knew I would loose the bursary. I have recently received letters from the NHS Bursary stating that they had made a mistake and that as I was Irish I was not entitled to the Bursary and therefore need to repay back the “overpayment” of nearly 15K within 30 days.

I was shocked! I am a student with no money, from a poor family. I don’t know what to do. Because the NHS told me I was entitled to the NHS bursary I did not apply for an Irish bursary (grant) and now it is too late (over 2 years too late)… I rang the Irish grant people and explained the situation, and although they thought it was terrible they said that it was too late to apply for the Irish grant now and that they could not back-date the grant, which I would of being entitled to.

Somebody please help, I am at a serious loss here, I am in my final year and I am meant to be studying for my final exams and dissertation but all I seem to do now is worry.

skintstudentnurse

Hi, sorry i don't have any advice but would your personal tutor/cohort leader/university finance department/ the CAB be any help? Or even your union? I know you must be under terrible pressure at the moment but please study so you can graduate.

Lots of hugs

enabledebra

http://www.ukcisa.org.uk/about/contact_us.php

You should follow this link to access free expert advice. I hope it all works out ok for you.

nursingconcern

I think that you need to go to a solicitor who specialises in employment law. You have been effectively working for the NHS for 2 years; hence you are entitled to minimum wage + extra for any night shifts that you may have worked. As far as I know no training nurse has challenged this yet; but as you would be entitled to Legal Aid, and have good reason to take this further, then you are in an ideal position. You see there is a difference between a 'course' and a 'job with course work', I think any court in the land would class nurse training as a job with course work rather than a course, especially as the hands on experience is not voluntary. I personally don't think that the Government would challenge this unless they can prove that they have no dependence on trainees to run hospitals. Calculate how much they owe 'you' for 2 years of work and you may start to see things with new eyes. (you may be able to get together with other trainee nurses who have been left in poverty in this matter)

As to the demand for the money back, do not worry. If you have no money you cannot pay it back. Offer them 50p-£1 a week. If they take you to court it is unlikely that they would get a higher offer given that you have no means of finance. _Don't_ offer them any more than you can afford. The C.A.B would help you draft a letter, but don't ignore the demand.

You have a right to continue with your training stress free. Sometimes principles like this take people to great hights you know :A .

welf_man

I'm sorry, but the last post is misguided on so many levels!

1) Are you suggesting the OP sues the Trust, or goes to an Employment tribunal, or what? On what grounds?

2) How do you know the OP will be eligible for Legal Aid?

3) Student nurses ARE students, and this is laid down in primary legislation, as well as in NHS documentation, so you would have to go a very long way up in the judicial system to get this over-ruled!

4) Surely the key point is whether this was an "official error" made by the NHS Bursary unit? If it was, then there should room for negotiation regarding repayment. AFAIK there is no discretion allowed on reclaiming overpayments, but I'm not convinced that this is an overpayment so much as a total !!!!-up!

OP - contact your university's or Students' Union's Welfare Advice centre, as well as the RCN, and get some urgent advice. Also contact the Bursary Unit and ask for a copy of your application - if you didn't keep one - so that it can be checked to ensure all the correct information was given.

Mel.

nursingconcern

>>>>>>1) Are you suggesting the OP sues the Trust, or goes to an Employment tribunal, or what? On what grounds?<<<<<<<<<<<

So called 'student' nurses are actually 'working' and often left alone on wards, not always during college hours either. The tasks they do are essential tasks to the running of the hospital. A specialist in employment law would know who is responsible for paying wages to those who work in, most likely to be the trust. What has she to lose?


>>>>>>>>2) How do you know the OP will be eligible for Legal Aid?<<<<

She has no money otherwise she wouldn't be worrying about paying off the debt. She has a right to make an application.

>>>>>>>3) Student nurses ARE students, and this is laid down in primary legislation, as well as in NHS documentation, so you would have to go a very long way up in the judicial system to get this over-ruled!<<<<<<<<<<<<

All things are challengeable through the legal system, this is why we have a legal system, especially when people's human rights are being breached, i.e. working without pay.

>>>>>4) Surely the key point is whether this was an "official error" <<<

Yes it is a key point, and she could challenge this as well, but then no one should be working now-a-days for less than the minimum wage whoever they are. Why accept anything less than any other work based courses, i.e., hairdressers, chefs, police, fire service, army etc..? Just because something has not been challenged before does not mean that it should continue to go unchallenged.

Oldernotwiser

Why on earth would the OP want to get involved in all this legal farango, probably making herself unemployable in the NHS in the process, when there are far more acceptable routes to follow to sort things out? I might think you to be a solicitor touting for business if you seemed to have any idea what you're talking about - which you don't! There is no comparison between a student nurse, studying for a higher education qualification, and a trainee hairdresser or chef!

dmg24

I agree with those suggesting you get advice from CAB or student support services.

Please do not take any action on the advice of nursingconcern (in fact I would go so far as to say ignore what they have written). Practically everything that they have written is incorrect.

The_Grandmaster

I'd agree with the idea that being a student nurse is being a student and not being in employment even though it does require working.

I think best option is to ask your university for help - there should be a financial department there to help - also I've read somewhere that universities have 'emergency funds' for students which you may be able to access. So definately seek someone in the university. Also student union could help but I think the financial department will be more clued up on what to do. They should advise you on your plan of action and if it does require legal action for instance.

Anyway hope the problem gets sorted and don't neglect your studies!:j

Edeldee

Sweetcakes, Im an Irish student who has just graduated from LSBU in March. Im from the North, and so was entitled to a bursary for the first two years, but I too decided to take the degree pathway and so the remainder was means tested and I got nothing for the final year.

Alot of my mates were from the south and it was always set out clearly that ROI students were not entitled to NHS SGU Funding, so I am surprised that they even let you past the post! (Though with the NHS SGU wonders never cease!)

So, like other people have mentioned, I would get onto the CAB and the Student Finance/Faculty Office to see what can be done. Also, hopefully you are a Student Member of the RCN? If so then definately get onto them aswell.

Also, do you have realitives across the border? If so (and the following is just a suggestion of course, im not advocating anything dodgy!!) - you could maybe use your grannies/whoever as your non term time address, then it will be a UK address and not an ROI one - problem solved?

To be honest, I think your a bit rogered - Its always been a known fact that ROI students were not eligible for the bursary, and so I cant see a way around you not having to pay it back now they've worked out their error - Though that might be your only saving grace, its THEIR error, and a big one at that (providing you didnt omit any information on your original application etc) and so you are not to blame.


BTW, I agree with dmg24 in totally diregarding what nursing concern has said, comments like "So called 'student' nurses are actually 'working' and often left alone on wards, not always during college hours either. The tasks they do are essential tasks to the running of the hospital"
and
"You have been effectively working for the NHS for 2 years; hence you are entitled to minimum wage + extra for any night shifts that you may have worked"
are utter waffle, as is much of the following:
"You see there is a difference between a 'course' and a 'job with course work', I think any court in the land would class nurse training as a job with course work rather than a course, especially as the hands on experience is not voluntary. I personally don't think that the Government would challenge this unless they can prove that they have no dependence on trainees to run hospitals"
The comments seem very much the rantings if a Project 2000 or there abouts nurse who trained in the good old days and is very much out of touch with how the NHS of today trains and goes on to employ its nurses.

Anyway, I dont envy the position you find yourself in, let us know how you get on.

travelling_light

Hi edeldee; my daughter is hoping to do nursing. can you advise if she should get bursary and then switch to degree and try for grant or is this nonsense? I am really confused afer a day at Northumbria uni who baffled us with jargon??
we are in Belfast.. thanks