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One for the planning people...is this bloke being a bit cheeky?

Bungarm2001
Posts: 686 Forumite
Okay, lets see if I can explain this properly. 
A few months ago, blokenextdoor to my son started building a wraparound extension on his 1930's semi. This will involve quite a large single story extension out the back, extending his kitchen. He at present has no other extension there and where he is building the new one is actually off his dining room, so it is very close to my son's dining room.
The wall of this particular bit runs just inside his boundary as per the plan. No problem there then...he asked my son if he could remove their dwarf wall planter thingy to get better access and my son agreed. Again, no problem there.
The plan is for a single extension because my sons house has a dining area with two french doors to the garden (where the planters are) so if he went higher, it would obviously cut out all the light they have.
My sons place (mirror semi) has an extended kitchen, put there years ago, but this is on the opposite side of their dining room, and comes out about 4 m in all. Blokenextdoors extension will not come out this far, about 3.2m.
Fast forward a few months.
Son sees progress on next doors extension, gets nagged by wife and kids (especially daughter who has shoe box bedroom) and decides to extend too. Decide to extend out from diner like next door, and go another story ontop of existing kitchen extension to provide new bedroom for rapidly growing daughter.
Priliminary plans say they can extend out from dining room to 4m thus matching the length of the existing extension, but can only go out 3.2m ontop of kitchen because of dimensions of next doors extension??
Anyway, after checking several times with several different planners, son decides to go ahead and accept the dimensions and get proper plans drawn up...whereupon blokenextdoor offers to help (he did his own and is building the entire extension himself.) In fact, blokenextdoor gets very helpful with suggestions, drawings etc etc.
Fast forward a bit more...
BI arrives at sons place to look at inspection hole for upgraded footings and structural engineer gets on with plans, then mate (who digs footings and does a bit of brickying) comes round and asks about next doors extension. Asks son where is neighbour going to put roof...points out that it looks a bit tall for a single story....suddenly, things start to get interesting. :cool: VERY interesting.
To cut this very long story short, because blokenextdoor knows son is now almost committed to having his extension, it seems he has decided, without planning permission or asking/telling/politely pointing out to my son that he has now decided to go double story as, and I quote, "I can now because you are extending, there's nothing to stop me...I KNOW I'll get the planning permission thru..it's a formality..."
What he seems to have forgotten is (1) my son actually hasn't submitted ANY plans yet, (2) he might get them refused and (3) he is now !!!!!! off at blokenextdoors cheek..and might scrap all plans :mad:
Blokenextdoor did point out tho that because he's decided to go full height that son can now go full length on his additional story over the kitchen extension, but surely, that would depend on whether blokenextdoor got his permission, which in turn would depend on whether SON would get HIS permission?? It seems to me that each of them must now rely on the other as to whether each will get planning permission? a bit chicken and egg..or have I/we got it totally wrong...??
Anyone got any ideas? comments?? anything??? All input gratefully received.
(PS Do I win a prize for posting the word 'extension' the most times in one post??) :rotfl:

A few months ago, blokenextdoor to my son started building a wraparound extension on his 1930's semi. This will involve quite a large single story extension out the back, extending his kitchen. He at present has no other extension there and where he is building the new one is actually off his dining room, so it is very close to my son's dining room.
The wall of this particular bit runs just inside his boundary as per the plan. No problem there then...he asked my son if he could remove their dwarf wall planter thingy to get better access and my son agreed. Again, no problem there.
The plan is for a single extension because my sons house has a dining area with two french doors to the garden (where the planters are) so if he went higher, it would obviously cut out all the light they have.
My sons place (mirror semi) has an extended kitchen, put there years ago, but this is on the opposite side of their dining room, and comes out about 4 m in all. Blokenextdoors extension will not come out this far, about 3.2m.
Fast forward a few months.
Son sees progress on next doors extension, gets nagged by wife and kids (especially daughter who has shoe box bedroom) and decides to extend too. Decide to extend out from diner like next door, and go another story ontop of existing kitchen extension to provide new bedroom for rapidly growing daughter.
Priliminary plans say they can extend out from dining room to 4m thus matching the length of the existing extension, but can only go out 3.2m ontop of kitchen because of dimensions of next doors extension??
Anyway, after checking several times with several different planners, son decides to go ahead and accept the dimensions and get proper plans drawn up...whereupon blokenextdoor offers to help (he did his own and is building the entire extension himself.) In fact, blokenextdoor gets very helpful with suggestions, drawings etc etc.
Fast forward a bit more...
BI arrives at sons place to look at inspection hole for upgraded footings and structural engineer gets on with plans, then mate (who digs footings and does a bit of brickying) comes round and asks about next doors extension. Asks son where is neighbour going to put roof...points out that it looks a bit tall for a single story....suddenly, things start to get interesting. :cool: VERY interesting.
To cut this very long story short, because blokenextdoor knows son is now almost committed to having his extension, it seems he has decided, without planning permission or asking/telling/politely pointing out to my son that he has now decided to go double story as, and I quote, "I can now because you are extending, there's nothing to stop me...I KNOW I'll get the planning permission thru..it's a formality..."
What he seems to have forgotten is (1) my son actually hasn't submitted ANY plans yet, (2) he might get them refused and (3) he is now !!!!!! off at blokenextdoors cheek..and might scrap all plans :mad:
Blokenextdoor did point out tho that because he's decided to go full height that son can now go full length on his additional story over the kitchen extension, but surely, that would depend on whether blokenextdoor got his permission, which in turn would depend on whether SON would get HIS permission?? It seems to me that each of them must now rely on the other as to whether each will get planning permission? a bit chicken and egg..or have I/we got it totally wrong...??
Anyone got any ideas? comments?? anything??? All input gratefully received.
(PS Do I win a prize for posting the word 'extension' the most times in one post??) :rotfl:
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Comments
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I'd be tempted to sit on it and instead start talking about the housing crash and having worked out the figures he's concerned that it might be over-developing the house and as prices come down he might be better placed to trade up using the benefit he'd gain from the falling market.
Just sit on it for 2 years and put the fear of God into next door.
Then report him anonymously to planning.0 -
if he has built footings/foundations for a single story building they may not be strong enough for a two storey building
if your son scraps his plans - this will not stop the bloke next door as he has already built what he has without permission.
the two blokes need to sit down and sort it out0 -
if he has built footings/foundations for a single story building they may not be strong enough for a two storey building
if your son scraps his plans - this will not stop the bloke next door as he has already built what he has without permission.
the two blokes need to sit down and sort it out
Good point about the footings...although I have a sneaky suspicion that he had 'over engineered' them in the first place, just in case he could get the upper story in at a later date maybe. My suspicions being fuelled by the fact that this bloke never seems to do anything without really thinking it out fully first.
They will no doubt talk it all thru, but what really rankles my son is he thought they were good mates..he was really pleased when he offered to help with the drawings (my son is clueless with all things to do with building) he also lent him software, told him how to use it and was in general a good helpful all round good guy...then he does this.
I/we are wondering how long it would have been before he'd told my son ALL his plans. I don't know, but it just seems downright rude to not even mention it at this stage, when he was so far into putting up the extension, let alone not putting all his cards on the table at the beginning.
Personally, I think they should both go to the planners together maybe...0 -
If it's a semi they should sit down together and sort out the planning permission and building together... not only could they save a load of paperwork, they could save a !!!!!! load of money by doing it properly.
The bloke next door is being completely sensible... if one is doing it then both should... will make houses match... but he shoud really have applied for permission. As a builder he should know better.Bankruptcy isn't the worst that can happen to you. The worst that can happen is your forced to live the rest of your life in abject poverty trying to repay the debts.0 -
They could both go double storey. But that requires PP.
It might be seen as overdevelopment though.0 -
Bungarm2001 wrote: »Good point about the footings...although I have a sneaky suspicion that he had 'over engineered' them in the first place, just in case he could get the upper story in at a later date maybe. My suspicions being fuelled by the fact that this bloke never seems to do anything without really thinking it out fully first.
They will no doubt talk it all thru, but what really rankles my son is he thought they were good mates..he was really pleased when he offered to help with the drawings (my son is clueless with all things to do with building) he also lent him software, told him how to use it and was in general a good helpful all round good guy...then he does this.
I/we are wondering how long it would have been before he'd told my son ALL his plans. I don't know, but it just seems downright rude to not even mention it at this stage, when he was so far into putting up the extension, let alone not putting all his cards on the table at the beginning.
Personally, I think they should both go to the planners together maybe...
Footings will be enough.
Can't actually see what the argument is about though, so long as the building work is done to a good standard.
Re the next door neighbour, watch him when he starts pitching the roof, sounds like he is already on the boundary, he may try and serve a "party wall" notice which can take the form of a hand written note, google it and refuse him permission of access for building works or any overhang.0 -
""If it's a semi they should sit down together and sort out the planning permission and building together... not only could they save a load of paperwork, they could save a !!!!!! load of money by doing it properly""
each property will still have to have a separate complete planning application - no money will be saved at all - time possibly.
"refuse him permission of access for building works or any overhang."" Captain M - how will this help anybody ??0 -
""If it's a semi they should sit down together and sort out the planning permission and building together... not only could they save a load of paperwork, they could save a !!!!!! load of money by doing it properly""
each property will still have to have a separate complete planning application - no money will be saved at all - time possibly.
"refuse him permission of access for building works or any overhang."" Captain M - how will this help anybody ??
Kindly quote me verbatim.Can't actually see what the argument is about though, so long as the building work is done to a good standard.0 -
What the problem in a nutshell is, everyone was quite happy with blokenextdoors original plans which were approved in the usual way after posting a notice etc etc My son and the neighbour the other side to BND (who is also affected, but thats a different story) were all very happy with the passed plans allowed for a single story only. Even he admitted that even these wouldn't have been passed if the new extension was going to be high enough to block out the light to my sons dining room.
However, now my son has made tentative plans to extend on his dining room (a single story extension, which is what the planners told him categorically that that is all he would be allowed) and extend upwards on his existing kitchen extension on the other side linking the two together, BND has taken it as read that he (my son) will actually go ahead with his and that he will get the plans thru no problem. (remember, BND has been helping all along with this)
On the strength of this it seems, he has gone ahead and flung up a second story on his still under construction extension, without informing the planning office (very dodgy thing to do in my experience) or his immediate neighbours (downright bluddy rude at the very least)
Sorry I'm probly repeating myself here, but I can't see how BND can possibly go ahead on the strength of his neighbour (my son) possibly putting up a single story extension next to it, nor he (my son ) being able to take advantage of BND's altered plans until its built?? ..again..chicken and egg situation.
PS The latest developement is, BND has told my son he can't have a skylight in his roof of his single extension (should he do it) because anyone might be able to see UP through it into HIS new window in this second story that he's building without PP...! !!!!!! is that all about???0 -
Captain_Mainwaring wrote: »Footings will be enough.
Can't actually see what the argument is about though, so long as the building work is done to a good standard.
The problem is, because he is putting up a second story, all the light coming into my son's dining room will be blocked off. BND ONLY originally got the planning permission to build a SS extension for this very reason. He knew all along that the plans for a double story extension would never have been passed because of this alone.
Re the next door neighbour, watch him when he starts pitching the roof, sounds like he is already on the boundary, he may try and serve a "party wall" notice which can take the form of a hand written note, google it and refuse him permission of access for building works or any overhang.
Yes we had thought of the roof thing, but we think he's pitching it outwards, away from the boundary line and into the garden..if you see what I mean. My son is keeping an eye out for any alterations because it seems that now, he has also decided to put the window in the upper story on the side, facing my son's property and garden. (see my other post about this) On his original plans, the ss would have a window facing his garden (still will do...he's passed that level already and the hole is there)0
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