Agent mismanaged flat and is not returning deposit...

mr1974

Hi

My old agent is not returning my deposit after I left the property.

History:

• Moved in 04/04/2007. House dirty, as Agent said it was not possible for him to find someone before we had to move in. Agreed we would leave in the same condition (verbally). No inventory when initially moved in. Agent said would have come after a few days with an additional key, but never did it.
• Number of things wrong with the house. Cracks in sanitaries, windows Major water leaking from roof caused misery to us and neighbour. Notified various time through Summer (phone/verbally) but no action taken.
• Around September we are tired of chasing and it’s clear life with this guy it’s going to be full of misery. We find another place. Contract says we re locked in for 8 months so have to pay double rent in the meantime - although we are not living in the property.
• Notify again to the agent we need a list of things to be fixed in writing (sort of "formally", but via email), and that I want to know if regulatory gas checks have been carried out as that worries me. No reply again with the excuse someone tried to contact me and they couldn’t. I go to the agency and leave the key saying they can get in when they want to fix. After another week – nothing happens - I give notice that I’ll be leaving at the end of the contract.
• Tell agent many times that on the 04/02/2008 the property will be vacant. No replies. I leave the keys in the house and on the 05/02/2008 he sends me an email telling me we have to meet for a checkout. Checkout doesn’t make any sense for me and I don’t want to carry it out AFTER I left the property so tell him there is no inventory (via emails).
• No replies.
• Sent other various emails to ask for the deposit. No replies.

Basically, I am now at a stage where I want to send a formal letter before opening a file with the county court for a "small claim".:mad:
Some questions:
- Do I have grounds to ask for the double rent I paid from 18/10/2008 ? (that's 109 days - £3270!)
- Do I have grounds to ask for a day worth of work, given I'll have to attend court?
- Shall I include interests - and how do I calculate them?
- The contract is a joint tenancy agreement, can I sign the notice letters, court proceedings etc. all in my name only (don't want to waste my friend's time)
Thanks in advance for any advice
mr

PS = I believe the agent works for a "management company" that also owns the house.

debs3693

Hi there, you might want to check out this link to the official pages of HMRC - it's quite user friendly and should be able to answer all questions you have about bringing a claim in the County Court http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/claims/index.htm but in short you can definitely charge interest from the date payment due - the process allows for a prescribed rate (more on the website). I am doubtful that you would be able to charge for when you paid double rent because as a claimant you have a duty to mitigate your loss - that said, if you warned them that you were going to do this as you felt unsafe re gas checks and general standard then it may be worth you putting this in your claim and seeing how you get on.
Not sure about the costs of attending court - i think witnesses may be able to but i'm not sure about Claimants, check on the web link (sorry).

BUT! Before you do that and incur the court fees and stress I strongly suggest that you make an appointment with your local Citizens Advice Bureau, they are well versed and very experienced in these kind of disputes and will act on your behalf - it sometimes helps the agent/LL to understand that you are serious and are not going away. If that fails, they will definitely be able to help you in terms of yoru court claim including filling in all the forms. You should be able to find your local CAB online http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/ and there is also a link here under advice where you should be able to find out more information.

Bit of a shame that I think you have missed out on having any rights under the Tenancy Deposit Scheme - from the 6th April LL's or agents have to place your deposit in a ringfenced scheme where there is a special dispute resolution procedure but looks like you missed this by a few days.

I suggest the CAB route as a good starting point.

Good Luck, Debs (Solicitor but unfortunately, not a property lawyer!)

Captain_Mainwaring_2

mr1974 wrote: »

Hi

My old agent is not returning my deposit after I left the property.

History:

• Moved in 04/04/2007. House dirty, as Agent said it was not possible for him to find someone before we had to move in. Agreed we would leave in the same condition (verbally). No inventory when initially moved in. Agent said would have come after a few days with an additional key, but never did it.
• Number of things wrong with the house. Cracks in sanitaries, windows Major water leaking from roof caused misery to us and neighbour. Notified various time through Summer (phone/verbally) but no action taken.
• Around September we are tired of chasing and it’s clear life with this guy it’s going to be full of misery. We find another place. Contract says we re locked in for 8 months so have to pay double rent in the meantime - although we are not living in the property.
• Notify again to the agent we need a list of things to be fixed in writing (sort of "formally", but via email), and that I want to know if regulatory gas checks have been carried out as that worries me. No reply again with the excuse someone tried to contact me and they couldn’t. I go to the agency and leave the key saying they can get in when they want to fix. After another week – nothing happens - I give notice that I’ll be leaving at the end of the contract.
• Tell agent many times that on the 04/02/2008 the property will be vacant. No replies. I leave the keys in the house and on the 05/02/2008 he sends me an email telling me we have to meet for a checkout. Checkout doesn’t make any sense for me and I don’t want to carry it out AFTER I left the property so tell him there is no inventory (via emails).
• No replies.
• Sent other various emails to ask for the deposit. No replies.

Basically, I am now at a stage where I want to send a formal letter before opening a file with the county court for a "small claim".:mad:
Some questions:
- Do I have grounds to ask for the double rent I paid from 18/10/2008 ? (that's 109 days - £3270!)
- Do I have grounds to ask for a day worth of work, given I'll have to attend court?
- Shall I include interests - and how do I calculate them?
- The contract is a joint tenancy agreement, can I sign the notice letters, court proceedings etc. all in my name only (don't want to waste my friend's time)
Thanks in advance for any advice
mr

PS = I believe the agent works for a "management company" that also owns the house.

Why didn't you notify things formally rather than "verbal"?

You can't just state "i don't want to waste my friends time" - are you serious or not?

I don't think you stand a cat in hells chance of getting the double rent back.

inmypocketnottheirs

Captain_Mainwaring wrote: »

Why didn't you notify things formally rather than "verbal"?

You can't just state "i don't want to waste my friends time" - are you serious or not?

I don't think you stand a cat in hells chance of getting the double rent back.

Exactly the same questions I would ask. As would a court I feel.

Captain_Mainwaring_2

I can't work it out - if you had a car accident that left you with your leg hanging off, would you telephone the insurer a year after and say "Oh yes sorry, forgot to tell you about my leg..."

Why are people so complacent about doing things properly?

poppysarah

You should have written to them.

You can not prove you've contacted them.

tbs624

Captain_Mainwaring wrote: »

Why didn't you notify things formally rather than "verbal"?

You can't just state "i don't want to waste my friends time" - are you serious or not?

I don't think you stand a cat in hells chance of getting the double rent back.

and

Captain_Mainwaring wrote: »

I can't work it out - if you had a car accident that left you with your leg hanging off, would you telephone the insurer a year after and say "Oh yes sorry, forgot to tell you about my leg..."

Why are people so complacent about doing things properly?

CM - tenants often find it hard to deal with difficult LLs and they may not be aware at the time of avenues of support and advice that are open to them. IMO your abrupt responses are unhelpful to the OP.

tbs624

mr1974 - Although it can’t help you now - for any other Tenants reading this thread - always, always put complaints/repairs issues in writing during your Tenancy - if you do it initially by phone or in person then note the date, the time, who you spoke to, & also write afterwards confirming your understanding of what was agreed. Keep copies of all letters sent and received, & put them safely with your Tenancy Agreement.

When you sign a contract both sides are legally bound to fulfil the contract terms, unless withdrawing by mutual agreement. You were therefore bound to pay the rent for the full term, and you seem to have done this. Your LL/LA was bound to fulfil the legal obligations on repairs and maintenance - your problem will be proving that he didn’t do so. Do you have any dated photographs, phone bills that will show his number and the dates on which you tried to contact him, copies of your emails? You mention a neighbour who was affected by the state of the property - would that neighbour be able to substantiate any of your claims?

The fact that you were not given a copy of the gas safety certificate is an offence and the HSE (Health & Safety Exec) should have been informed ( and still can be) - a LL is required to keep his copies of the Certs for 2 years and the tenants should always be given their own copy to be kept at the property. He can be taken to court and fined for failing to do so, with a higher fine if he also cannot show by any other means that he ever had any servicing done on gas appliances.

Although emails can be used as evidence, IMO snail mail is better (esp with rec del/hand delivery). A LA/LL can change their email address and you wouldn’t know whether they simply weren’t replying or hadn’t in fact received your email. A paper trail is good

You need to write formally confirming the dates of your tenancy, when you moved out and confirming that you had paid utility bills up to date & were complying with the requirement to returned the property in the same standard as it that provided at the start of the tenancy (fair wear & tear excepted), and at the very least, requesting the return of your deposit. There are samples letters available on the Shelter website. Even if you would have insufficient evidence to pursue the LL for his failure to meet his legal obligations, any of the above will help to establish the business practices of this LL as background for you getting your deposit back via the courts. (Keep copies, send it rec delivery or hand deliver it)

The Council’s Tenancy Relations Officer (private sector team in housing dept) will be able to give you some free advice ( and they do like to be aware of LLs on their patch who act like this) so ring to make an appointment and take any of your info with you: it may also be worth you speaking to the CAB (as Debs has suggested) or Shelter's helpline 0800 0808 4444 or considering a fixed fee appointment with a solicitor (always ask for someone with experience of LL & T law).

Captain_Mainwaring_2

tbs624 wrote: »

and



CM - tenants often find it hard to deal with difficult LLs and they may not be aware at the time of avenues of support and advice that are open to them. IMO your abrupt responses are unhelpful to the OP.

I'm pretty sure the the UK is getting wetter and wetter, you can't have kids fail exams so you dumb down the standard, people can't back back what they owe so we invent more and more ways of shirking out of their responibilities, and people getting into a mess with letting, but God forbid we warn them how important it is to properly document every last thing and keep all correspondance.

Never delete an email and only throw away important/contract letters away after scanning them.

My policy thus far has saved me a lot of money, the OP has just done 3K.

zebulon

Captain_Mainwaring wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the the UK is getting wetter and wetter,

no it's not, it's the same... it's just you who start realising how it is :rotfl:



Hi mr1974

everything that had to be said was said already by tbs624 and debs3693

I'm definately with you for geting your deposit back...
but, and this is just my opinion, I would not have much hope as for getting the double rent thingy, (considering points made by other people that no trail of complaints, problems, you not *telling* them officialy you have to find new accommodation etc..)

How is the new place you moved to?
Make sure you have detailed inventory (you don't have to wait to get one, make your own , you can find more details about that), did you take pics?
Now you know you have to complain a bit more formally (mainly if you realise phone calls don't get you anywhere)

tbs624

Captain_Mainwaring wrote: »

........My policy thus far has saved me a lot of money, the OP has just done 3K

Must be hard for you living amongst mere mortals CM.:D

Your policy may of course fail if your hard drive dies…but then you’ve probably got several multi-passworded copies stored in a fireproof bank vault somewhere….

A lot of this depends on your age - the younger you are the more likely it is that you do things “ on the hoof” because instant messaging, emails,mobile phones & texting are the norm and are IMO less conducive to maintaining good usable records.

Some people genuinely trust other people to do the right thing once something has been raised, and some tenants are (justifiably) concerned about raising their LLs ire by putting complaints/requests for action formally during their tenancy.

IMO when someone is asking for help or suggestions, it’s definitely not helpful simply to state the b/obvious - saying “ you should have done this, you should have done that….so tough ” but preferable to try the angle “okay, given that you did/didn’t do this, here’s what you could do now to salvage something ”

Right, coffee break over………