OH made redundant after 17years - Need help on the process the company have used

therealdessie

musey wrote: »

We are considering the legal cost, however one of his colleagues made redundant in January is making a claim for unfair dismissal based on the incorrect proceedures having been used and this is being covered by the legal protection cover on his house insurance, I have checked and we are also covered for this.

Excellent! That's great news. I thought it prudent to point it out just in case, as the legal fees can often outweigh the result!

musey

Hi

Thanks for the advice received when I first posted.

As an update of the current position, OH has now 'offically' finished work. In the original letter he received he was told he would be invited for a further consulation meeting before 30 June this invitedation hadn't arrived by 26 June so we sent a recorded del letter requesting the meeting. One of the main reasons for wanting the meeting was that no one had been in contact to explain what redundancy payout he should expect and when he would get it.

4 days after this letter was sent we received a letter from company HQ detailing the payout, it made a comment 'as mutually agreed' nothing was mutally agreed with them. The letter gave 5 days to appeal, OH doesn't have a copy of the company appeals procedure so we don't know if this follows their procedure or not. The same day as this letter came an abrupt message was left on ansa-machine asking OH to call the person that he should have met for the further consultation meeting. OH did this the next day and the chap said there are no other positions in the firm and he didn't want to drag OH up motorway to tell him this so he said a meeting would be pointless and they agreed to no meeting. OH asked for confirmation of the call to be made in writing, that letter arrived today and states that the company chap had tried to contact OH before their telephone conversation but hadn't managed to (thats rubbish, they just hoped he'd go away)

Anyway this morning I spoke with the legal protection cover people provided under our home insurance, they advised OH more than likely has a case for unfair dismsal and failure to follow proper consultation procedure (can't remember how he actually worded this one but that was the gist of it). He advised that OH writes to the company stating that he is appealing and the reasons why.

I wonder if someone with a bit of experience with this sort of thing would let me pm the wording I had in mind to see if they think it's ok?

musey

Hi Guys

A further update on our situation.

We wrote outlining the resons for appeal and some 10days letter OH received a letter asking him to attend a meeting in a town approx 1½hrs away in 2 days time.

We emailed to say that it was not enough notice and gave 2 alternative dates.

Response from the company was neither date was suitable as manager was on holday.

We emailed again giving 2 further dates after manager's return and also requested certain information that the solicitors say we need.

Response from company was that the 2nd date was suitable and that the information requested would be received in the next couple of days.

No information has been received. As a consequence OH has decided that they are just taking the mickey and that he can't afford to take a day off work and lose a day's pay to go to a meeting where he is sure they are going to mock him. (he really doesn't function well in 'meeting' situations and gets terribley stressed, in fact the thought of going was begining to make him ill)

I explained this to the solicitor and they suggested he e-mail them explaining that as he is no longer employed by the company and cannot afford to take the loss of a day's pay he requests that they handle his appeal using the modified procedure and re-iterating the request for the information.

They have responded to the request to handle the appeal by the modified procedure and have agreed to respond to his appeal within 10 days of the manager returning from annual leave. But have not made any reference to the request for information and when he shoudld expect to receive it.

I have sent this letter in to the solicitors and our case worker has responded by saying that without this information when she reviews the case to decide if they should accept it she will have to say the case does not have a reasonable chance of success and therefore they cannot act on OH's behalf.

I am so confused, how can we proceed with a claim for unfair dismissal if the company won't provide the information the solicitor says we need? What do we do now? Solicitor says that if we get 'any further information or the information we have requested' then we can appeal her decision.

One of the reasons for the appeal was that they didn't follow the correct consultation process when making over 30 employees redundant and one of the pieces of information we have requested from the company was confirmation of how many they were making redundant at the same time as OH, there was lots of press articles at the time stating the numbers of people being made redundant at the same time, does anyone think they would be of use?

Solicitor suggests OH writes acknowledging the letter and again requesting the information we need (for the 3rd time) can anyone suggest anything else that OH should request, like his personnel file?

I'm presuming they are being deliberately obstuctive because they know they didn't follow correct procedures and OH was unfairly selected for redundancy based on a decision made by a manager who liked one member of staff (on a personal level) more than another. OH has written references from his managers attesting to the quality of his work, manner with customers, his time keeping etc. This is a national company not a little mom & pop operation. Are they really allowed to just ignore his requests for information? How can they be made to give the information? And I suppose the cynic in me says that even if they do provide it, how can we be sure it is the truth?

Any help/suggestions or sympathy would be appreciated.

bookduck

If you want to intimidate them, I would say something along the lines that ' I'm sorry, but this area is outside my normal working area of expertise, while i'm sure you all have experience in this and have already discussed it amongst yourselves and I'm sure what you all say is perfectly legal an above board, but since there is so much for me to grasp and remember in such a short time, I hope that you do not mind if I record this event' and before they say anything pull out his pocket recorder and switch it on and put it in the middle of the table. Now watch their faces!

SuziQ

It sounds like you are doing everything possible to chase this and that the solicitors are the ones who should be advising you. Do I take it your husband quickly found a different job then? If so and things start to get very stressful,I would advise you think long and hard how far you want to take this. I was involved in a court case a few years ago that broke me financlially and emotionally-if I could have my time over I would have walked away much earlier and gained peace of mind.I appreciate what they have done is wrong and that you are trying to right a wrong,but whether the end result will justify the effort and stres along the way you will only be able to judge in hindsight.
I wish you luck with your decision and case.

londondulwich

Bear in mind that if or when the case goes before a tribunal, all the delays, the evasive replies and general obfuscation will be highlighted.

Everything they do to disfigure and contaminate the legal process will reflect back on them.

If you had the backing of a solicitor you could threaten them with a costs order. The way to force the information out of them is via the Employment Tribunal. You make an application to the Tribunal for it to order the other side to disclose whatever you want by a set date. Since you will have had to resort to this unnecessary extreme, the solicitor making the application would ask for a 'wasted costs' order.

In any event you can still make the application yourselves and claim what is called a 'reasonable amount'.

musey

My problem is that the solicitors we have been dealing with (they are part of the legal protection we have with our home insurance) have said tyhat they only take on cases with a 'reasonable chance of success' and that without this information they can't properly assess the claim meaning they will decide it doesn't have a reasonable chance of success and will stop dealing with it. Although we can appeal that decision with them if we get any further or additional information.

So I'm at a loss how to progress now

peter999

musey wrote: »

My problem is that the solicitors we have been dealing with (they are part of the legal protection we have with our home insurance) have said tyhat they only take on cases with a 'reasonable chance of success' and that without this information they can't properly assess the claim meaning they will decide it doesn't have a reasonable chance of success and will stop dealing with it. Although we can appeal that decision with them if we get any further or additional information.

So I'm at a loss how to progress now

Are you sure your solicitors/insurers are not giving you the runround & want an easy life.

They cannot expect everything will be perfect with cases & may need to ask for a delay until the information is received.

Are they working in your interests or the insurers/legal protection scheme's interests.

Maybe kickup a fuss with the insurers, they need to work for the service you have paid for.

peter999

ohreally

Op, the clock is ticking and time is against you re making a complaint to an employment tribunal. Watch you don't become time-barred.

londondulwich

Submit a claim to the employment tribunal as soon as possible. If things go wrong you can always withdraw it. You will only be penalised if the claim is frivolous, at the moment it doesn't seem that way.

The form can be submitted online via the Employment Tribunal web site. If you want help doing it, just ask.

When the company recieve notice of a claim they may well respond promptly with all the information you have requested.

If not here's a suggested letter you can send to the Tribunal dealing with your case. The Tribunal have the power to order the employer to disclose.






To: The Secretary of the Tribunals
Regional Office of the Employment Tribunals
(address?)


Dear Sir/Madam (Have you been allocated a chairman?)
Case No … (Name and number of case?)

I apply for an order under Rule 10 (1), (2)(b) of the Employment Tribunals (Constitution and Rules of Procedure) Regulations 2004 Schedule 1 that the Respondent furnish us in writing with the following further information in respect of the Response.(The response is the defence put forward by the employer)


All the paragraphs to the employer's defence will be numbered, quote the paragraph you want further information on and what you want to know.

For instance,

Under paragraph 2 Of “the Applicant was selected for redundancy on fair criteria"
State with precise details all aspects of the applied criteria with all dates and circumstances relied upon.

Under paragraph 3 of “the Applicant was fully consulted throughout the redundancy procedure”
State with precise details the terms on which the consultation took place; whether the consultation was given orally or in writing; if orally the words used and who spoke the words; and if in writing identify all relevant document(s).

Under paragraph 4 of "after considering the results of the consultation the applicant was made redundant"
State with precise details how the responses to the consultation were obtained, recorded, reviewed and assessed and all relevant document(s).

( your Signature)

Your name