OH made redundant after 17years - Need help on the process the company have used

musey

Hi Guys

I wonder if I can get some advice on the situation we find ourselves in.

My OH works (well I should say worked) in the consturction business for a well know (no names mentioned) housebuilder. In January they made over 20 people redundant in his region without following proper consutlation procedures, 2 people he knows that were made redundant are taking further action on this.

Anyway, moving to May he was called into the office Friday 23rd along with the others that work in the same job as him to be told out of the 4 of them, 1 would be made redundant. He was given sheet of paper to fill in that asked, would he be prepared to travel further, live/work away from home, be considered for voluntary redundancy etc etc and told to attend an interview on Tuesday morning. He duly completed the form and attended the interview, they were told that they would know on Friday. In honesty we weren't worried and stupdly didn't consider for a second it could be him as he has been there 17 years (2 others have been there less time), he has a great work record with no time off sick etc. Anyway to cut to the chase on Friday at 3pm he was told he had been selected for redundancy.

They could give him no answers on why he was picked above the others, only that his answers in the interview weren't as good? He was told to take the van home, empty it and return it on Monday. He will be paid to the end of June and thats pretty much it. As the head office is quite far away he isn't keen to return the van to them, rather, he has said they can come and collect it, is that fair?

So after my tale of woe, my questions...........

1. He started work in 1991 (he was 18 at the time) for a different company which has been taken over twice by bigger firms, we have proof of his employment going back to 1991 and a letter after the last takeover that his employment is classed as continuous. Am I right in thinking he should be paid redundancy for 17 years?

2. As he is still officially employed until the end of June and he is the only one to use his van should he have to surrender it now or should he surrender it at the end of June?

3. The criteria of how they were selecting those for redundancy has never been made clear and they could give him no reason when he asked, have they acted incorrectly? (at least 20 other people are being made redundant within the company at the same time, although in different jobs)

4. As he has work there for so long, should his notice period not be longer than 4 weeks? I think I have read it should be 1 week for every year he has worked up to 12

5. I work full time and earn approx £19,000 (I was on maternity leave for 5 months last year so my earnings were £14500 2007-08) and also have another income of approx £4000, are we/is he entitled to claim any benefits?

6. If the company have acted incorrectly who do we report them to, or how do we take action?

We have a child under 2 who is in full time nursery and a mortgage.

Any information would be gratefully received.

Thanks

Incisor

musey wrote: »

1. He started work in 1991 (he was 18 at the time) for a different company which has been taken over twice by bigger firms, we have proof of his employment going back to 1991 and a letter after the last takeover that his employment is classed as continuous. Am I right in thinking he should be paid redundancy for 17 years?

2. As he is still officially employed until the end of June and he is the only one to use his van should he have to surrender it now or should he surrender it at the end of June?

3. The criteria of how they were selecting those for redundancy has never been made clear and they could give him no reason when he asked, have they acted incorrectly? (at least 20 other people are being made redundant within the company at the same time, although in different jobs)

4. As he has work there for so long, should his notice period not be longer than 4 weeks? I think I have read it should be 1 week for every year he has worked up to 12

5. I work full time and earn approx £19,000 (I was on maternity leave for 5 months last year so my earnings were £14500 2007-08) and also have another income of approx £4000, are we/is he entitled to claim any benefits?

6. If the company have acted incorrectly who do we report them to, or how do we take action?

1. Yes
2. Depends. If he has private use of the vehicle as part of his contract, then he should continue to have it, but if it is informal, then No. If he has to travel to do anything from now on [collect payslips, redundancy cheque, whatever] or even to hand the van in, he should get expenses. I would suggest if it is awkward to transfer it back, then the employer should fetch it
3. Yes, there is a statutory process, but I can't answer beyond that
4. He should get his notice period plus redundancy, if I understand correctly
5. Others may know, but with an income of £23,000 into the house, unlikely
6. You take a case to an Industrial Tribunal.

peter999

musey wrote: »

Anyway, moving to May he was called into the office Friday 23rd along with the others that work in the same job as him to be told out of the 4 of them, 1 would be made redundant. He was given sheet of paper to fill in that asked, would he be prepared to travel further, live/work away from home, be considered for voluntary redundancy etc etc and told to attend an interview on Tuesday morning. He duly completed the form and attended the interview, they were told that they would know on Friday.

They could give him no answers on why he was picked above the others, only that his answers in the interview weren't as good?

Sounds like he's been stitched up like a kipper.

Get busy getting advice & take them to the cleaners.

peter999

musey

Thank you for the responses, I intend to contact ACAS tomorrow to get some further information.

We will pursue them if they have acted incorrectly, it's just so difficult to know if they've behaved reasonabley/correctly or not.

Does it matter how many they are making redundant in the firm, I mean should different procedures be followed? If so, I presume it's important he knows how many (exactly) are going this time.

Incisor, regarding the notice period, do I nderstand correctly that he should get 12 weeks notice + statutory redundancy? I don't want them to try and bamboozle OH by saying that the 12weeks is a gesture of goodwill on their part.

cazziebo

Call ACAS tomorrow morning and ask them the same questions - they are usually very helpful. If they see any shortcomings in how the company has processed this then your next step would be to contact a specialist employment lawyer.

standupguy

The selection criteria should be made clear to the individual.

Usually there is a chart with different headings and each person is given a mark for that category.
Individual categories may be weighted if deemed more important than others.

What you need to know is what were each category, which if any were weighted and what was your OH's individual score in each category and total score.

Then, what is your opinion - were these categories and marks reasonable?

Unfortunately you have no right to see other peoples scores.

If he has been unfairly selected than he may well have a case for unfair disnissal.

The van seems to be a benefit in kind and he therefore should continue to have the use of it until the day he leaves - you can understand the firm wanting it back to use in the business but nevertheless they are taking away a benefit and that is not right -you may be able to negotiate a cash allowance in replacement of the van for early release?

His notice period will be on his contract of employment.

Your Husband will be able to claim job seekers allowance for 6 months.

This is a very difficult time for you but do not be bullied and challenge everything.

musey

standupguy wrote: »

The selection criteria should be made clear to the individual.

Usually there is a chart with different headings and each person is given a mark for that category.
Individual categories may be weighted if deemed more important than others.

What you need to know is what were each category, which if any were weighted and what was your OH's individual score in each category and total score.

Then, what is your opinion - were these categories and marks reasonable?

Unfortunately you have no right to see other peoples scores.

If he has been unfairly selected than he may well have a case for unfair disnissal.

He hasn't seen any type of selection criteria. I presume that he has the right to request it in writing?

standupguy wrote: »

The van seems to be a benefit in kind and he therefore should continue to have the use of it until the day he leaves - you can understand the firm wanting it back to use in the business but nevertheless they are taking away a benefit and that is not right -you may be able to negotiate a cash allowance in replacement of the van for early release?

Thats what I thought about the van, however he isn't taxed for having it, he says his boss has always told them they can use it personally but I think this may have been an 'on the quiet' agreement for all in his role. He had to have the van as his work involves travelling from site to site

standupguy wrote: »

His notice period will be on his contract of employment.

I don't think he has a written contract, we have everything else dating back to his start of employment but no contract, does that alter what notice they must give him?

standupguy wrote: »

Your Husband will be able to claim job seekers allowance for 6 months.

As he is being paid his normal wage until the end of June, I guess we will need to wait until then to put a claim in. I will contact the tax credits people also to make them aware of the changes.

standupguy wrote: »

This is a very difficult time for you but do not be bullied and challenge everything.

My OH would is totally unaware of his statutory rights and whilst he wouldn't accept bullying when one is unaware of one's rights it is difficult to know if what they are doing is cprrect or not. I will contact ACAS for advice, with me researching and backing him he will do what needs to be done


Thank you to everyone for the help.

I will update as thing progress, I'm sure I will be back for more help & support shortly.

therealdessie

I can't give advice on the specifics of this, but I have had a similar experience, and there are some things you need to bear in mind. The selection criteria can be arbitrary, and likely came down to the cost of wages: if he was long-serving that's probably it. If you sue and are successful after a long period of litigation which you would have to pay for, the entitlement if it is wrongful dismissal would be his equivalent pay for each month he's out of work - the legal fees would likely swallow that up; and it sounds as if they followed the correct procedure even though the outcome was horrible.

Get down to the Jobcentre straight away, get on all of the jobs boards and try to get back to work as soon as possible, that's your priority and you don't have time right now (harsh but true) to sort out a hefty legal battle - though I do advise looking into and trying to negotiate a better deal from the employer (check out http://www.iambeingfired.co.uk/redundancy.html). Remember to get an immedite claim in for Council Tax Benefit as it only takes effect from the claim date, it is not back-paid. Check your entitlement to extra tax credits etc also.

I sympathise with you being in this horrible situation, as it happened to me recently too, but the longer you're out of work the more you wish you'd done as much as you could to get back in the early days.

musey

Hi Guys

I thoought I would just update on things so far.

I had a long conversation with ACAS and they gave me lots of info which has been useful.

They informed me that OH is entitled to 12 weeks notice, and as they have asked him to return his van and cease work they will have to pay him for the notice period. He will be entitled to 15½ weeks pay as redundancy, they also suggested that before we think about taking things further he request a written reference from both of his managers and a letter giving him proof of his no claims history whilst employed for the company. He returned his van today and picked up 2 references stating his work/attitude were excellent etc etc and the no claims letter so all good there.

They advise that he probably has a claim for unfair dismissal as the company have not followed the correct proceedure, so we have to consider this.

musey

therealdessie wrote: »

I can't give advice on the specifics of this, but I have had a similar experience, and there are some things you need to bear in mind. The selection criteria can be arbitrary, and likely came down to the cost of wages: if he was long-serving that's probably it. If you sue and are successful after a long period of litigation which you would have to pay for, the entitlement if it is wrongful dismissal would be his equivalent pay for each month he's out of work - the legal fees would likely swallow that up; and it sounds as if they followed the correct procedure even though the outcome was horrible.

Get down to the Jobcentre straight away, get on all of the jobs boards and try to get back to work as soon as possible, that's your priority and you don't have time right now (harsh but true) to sort out a hefty legal battle - though I do advise looking into and trying to negotiate a better deal from the employer (check out http://www.iambeingfired.co.uk/redundancy.html). Remember to get an immedite claim in for Council Tax Benefit as it only takes effect from the claim date, it is not back-paid. Check your entitlement to extra tax credits etc also.

I sympathise with you being in this horrible situation, as it happened to me recently too, but the longer you're out of work the more you wish you'd done as much as you could to get back in the early days.

We are considering the legal cost, however one of his colleagues made redundant in January is making a claim for unfair dismissal based on the incorrect proceedures having been used and this is being covered by the legal protection cover on his house insurance, I have checked and we are also covered for this.

standupguy

He should have been given a right to appeal against the redundancy.

If he hasn't then the employer has not followed correct procedure.

If he has, then I think you will find he has to go through the appeals procedure at work before he can make a succesful claim for unfair dismissal?