Item to seller damaged in transit

Merlot

I am a EBayer Seller with over 1000 100% feedback, I sold some speakers on E-Bay 44 days ago and sent them via a courier to the buyer, they arrived damaged, the buyer only informed me of the damage a week after delivery , I have put in a claim with the courier as I believe they are responsible for the damage, they were adequately packed and had the words fragile marked several times on the parcel, my question is my buyer wants me to refund him without him returning the damaged item, and without waiting for the courier company to complete their investigation into the claim, it is now 44 days since this buyer paid, does he only have one more day to open a dispute or is it 60 days if the item was damaged in transit.

The courier company have emailed and said the claim could take upto 12 weeks and I have notified the buyer of this, but he wants a refund without returning the item, what would you do?

Merlot.x.

Premier_2

If you are making a claim against the courier, definitely no refund before the item is returned. The courier has the right to request to see the item before paying out any damage claim. In fact if they pay out the full value of the item, they might say they want the item themselves. If you haven't got the item, you may find any claim refused.

Once the item is returned (and damage agreed) then a refund to the buyer should be processed. You should not wait for the courier to pay you.

Sorry, not sure about the paypal dispute timesframes in this respect - but then if I was the buyer I would have raised one well within 45 days anyway.

Merlot

thanks for your reply, I would happily refund if the buyer returned the item, but they won't. The other thing which concerns me is the fact they left it 7 days after delivery (I've seen the POD) before notifying me of the damage, how do I know the buyer didn't drop the damage speaker I'm wondering if this buyer is trying it on, most of my feedback comments on the excellent packaging, and this item was packed as well as any other I have sent.

If I can get the buyer to return the item, at whos cost would that be? Mine or the buyer?

Premier_2

Under paypal rules, the buyer won't get a request for a full refund awarded until they can prove the item has been returned (i.e by a tracking code that confirms delivery viewable online). Under the same rules, the buyer will have to return the item at his own expense.

As regards whether the item was damaged in transit or after delivery, that's a difficult one. It could be that you pay out the buyer and the courier fails to compensate you, either because the evidence suggests the damage was not caused during transit (couriers might want to see the original packaging too, which after such a long time may not be available) or even because the item was signed for as perfect by the buyer by default (i.e. did not state 'damaged' or 'unchecked' when signing)

Ultimately that is a risk you have to take.

If the item is not returned, paypal will not award a full refund
If the item is returned, chances are that paypal will provide a full refund to the buyer.
If you have evidence to suggest the buyer is "trying it on", that may end up only being resolved in court.

Merlot

Premier, you have been more than helpful, I have been looking at the help section on Ebay this morning, and I am unable to find anything that tells me the buyer has to return the item before a refund will be issued (if he/she opens a dispute), could you post a link for me, so I can email my buyer, I have no problem whatsoever refunding, but I want the item back, it can be easily repaired, would cost a few quid to repair.

Jakg

If they had opened a PayPal dispute it would have asked them to return to you via a trackable method at THEIR cost.

Premier_2

Merlot wrote: »

Premier, you have been more than helpful, I have been looking at the help section on Ebay this morning, and I am unable to find anything that tells me the buyer has to return the item before a refund will be issued (if he/she opens a dispute), could you post a link for me, so I can email my buyer, I have no problem whatsoever refunding, but I want the item back, it can be easily repaired, would cost a few quid to repair.

Section 13.7.a

If a buyer files a Claim asserting receipt of a Significantly Not as Described item, we will generally require the buyer to return the item to the seller at the buyer’s expense and to provide proof of return delivery. In some circumstances, we may require the buyer to send the item to us or to a third party specified by us, to obtain documentation from a qualified third party substantiating the Claim, or to provide evidence that the item has been destroyed. In some instances, we may ask a buyer to support a Claim by filing and supplying a copy of a police report.

https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/policy_pbp-outside

This needs to be read in conjuction with 13.1 to understand what Significantly Not As Described means.

In essence, a paypal claim can only be made for either

(a) an item not received
or
(b) an item Significantly Not As Described.

If an item has damage not stated in the original description (perhaps as in this case because it happened in transit) then it can only come under the Significantly Not As Described clause (since it cannot, by definition, come under the Item Not Received clause).

soolin

Jakg wrote: »

If they had opened a PayPal dispute it would have asked them to return to you via a trackable method at THEIR cost.

Hmm, unless they decide not to

The dispute against me closed yesterday and paypal said that a refund would be made to my buyer as soon as buyer provided tracking showing item had been returned. This morning I got up and found that overnight the refund had been made, without the buyer proving I had the item.

I expected to lose and frankly I don't want the item returned for a second time as it is far too damaged (deliebrately!) to be of any use, but I fail to understand how they can require tracking and then just refund even when it is not provided.

frivolous_fay

soolin wrote: »

The dispute against me closed yesterday and paypal said that a refund would be made to my buyer as soon as buyer provided tracking showing item had been returned. This morning I got up and found that overnight the refund had been made, without the buyer proving I had the item.

/optimism mode on I would have thought a quick phone call would have paypal scurrying around to correct their idiocy.

They didn't provide a fake tracking number did they?

soolin

frivolous_fay wrote: »

/optimism mode on I would have thought a quick phone call would have paypal scurrying around to correct their idiocy.

They didn't provide a fake tracking number did they?

Nope, nothing provided to paypal at all. I have sent them a terse email and also made a formal complaint of fraud through the paypal appeal procedure.

Frankly I am a bit teed off with it, there is so much evidence that this buyer is scamming and I followed the process exactly and still she wins. I can't even leave a warning to the other sellers and she is currently buying around 15 items a week and so far has not left any feedback, although a dozen or more sellers have left positive feedback for her.

Anyway, sorry to hijack this thread.