why you should REALLY support brokers

BrokeRage

judi24 wrote: »

My experience of mortgage brokers has not been very positive - 4 years ago we used Carrington Carr - who came to the house - did all the paper work and seemed to offer a very efficient service - until they tried to sell protection products! They tried hard to sell us a whole range of protection products and my ex-husband is an insurance man's dream and just kept saying how good it sounded. It was only when the final paper work came through that I realised how much this would all cost!

I then had them remove the protection (and got a much better deal elsewhere) - at this point thier service changed completely and we were dropped like a hot potato - we did get the mortgage but the adviser was not impressed - and became downright hostile!

The same company contacted me recently ( they have changed names though) but again thier advisor was really unhelpful! He came out to visit - took loads of details - set up an appointment to come back then cancelled because I was not in a position to complete ( complicated because I was still waiting for legal conformation that I culd buy the house off my ex) - I still needed advice and definately didn't get it!

I paid around £2000 for ther advice 4 years ago - this was supposed to be lifetime advice - which I took to mean they would not charge me again - but they wanted to charge me extra for the extra borrowing!

Now I need good advice but once bitten!!!!

I don't blame you for feeling let down judi, it rather backs up the earlier comments I made about some fee-charging brokers (they were getting commission on the protection sales, hence the hostility when they lost the business). They probably got paid a procuration fee on the mortgage as well. Check the origianal illustration, it would have been declared on there.

I tot up the overall cost of protection as I am quoting it...I am concious of the balance that has to be struck between protection and cost. I lose less than one per cent of my business a year in cancellation. The only one I had this year was when I managed to get a client a better policy after the original life company excluded cancer from his critical illness policy.

I agree with much of what dunstonh says, although I get a lot of home insurance and it stays on my books. I frequently out-quote the comparison sites as well (they do get commissions too you know).

lr1277

MortgageMamma wrote: »

Of course we all get referrals from existing clients, accountants, solicitors etc, but its pretty obvious the only reason someone will recommend an adviser to a friend/colleague/associate is because they have received good service themselves.

Clients who already use accountants/solicitors have already made the mental leap required to pay for services, so paying for setting up a mortgage won't be a huge deal for them. Also people who need solicitors/accountants may have complicated affairs in which case a broker who can find them a deal that matches their requirements would be useful. Not sure how many of the general public have complicated affairs that means they need expert advice. I suppose this doesn't help you unless lots more people having complicated situations or are rich and/or the situation gets more complicated which may be the possible in the current climate.

dunstonh

i used Cavendish for 2 life insurance policies, and to "re-pension".

can you as a IFA honestly say you can beat them on prices?

I couldnt beat Cavendish on pricing for life cover (actually I can because their gross premiums are not that cheap but I choose not to as I have no interest in being a factory line for the bottom end of the market). However, I can beat them easily on pensions as can any IFA. This has been evidenced in the pensions forum. Cavendish only offer a limited panel of pensions and the cheapest personal pensions can come in a lot cheaper than stakeholders and personal pensions on nil commission terms that they offer on their panel.

Also, anyone investing on the basis of saving money on charges rather than making money clearly has their priorities wrong.

BTW i suspect IFA will find the next decade harder than the last with the net and sites like MSE

Most IFAs are booming. All the "real" IFAs I know are seeing year on year increases and things have never been as good. The sales reps are suffering and I dont give two hoots about them.

I suspect that the next decade will see IFAs earning more than ever before. Partly due to increased professionalism and qualification requirements reducing numbers and the products that the sales reps offer will be dumbed down meaning IFAs will have better options to market. Most of these dumbed down products will be the ones available direct as well.

You dont appear to know much about the type of business IFAs transact. I would love to see you try some of the transactions we deal with. You wouldnt have a clue where to start. We do simple transactions as well where you may fair better but increasingly IFAs are not interested in that sort of business.

I agree with much of what dunstonh says, although I get a lot of home insurance and it stays on my books. I frequently out-quote the comparison sites as well (they do get commissions too you know).

Yes, my mortgage adviser does a lot of home insurance and he says he often beats or matches the comparison sites. No surprise really as the margins are not very big on home insurance and some of the brokers available to intermediaries can come up with very good prices nowadays. His GI tends to stick as well.

BrokeRage

Very accurate dunstonh. I remember the adverts saying how great Equitable Life were because they didn't pay commissions to middle-men. Poor old Henry is in the poorhouse now.

cells

dunstonh wrote: »

However, I can beat them easily on pensions as can any IFA. this was for my father who used an IFA and he saved money "re-pensioning" with cava as for me, im on the company pension which im sure you cant beat. This has been evidenced in the pensions forum. Cavendish only offer a limited panel of pensions and the cheapest personal pensions can come in a lot cheaper than stakeholders and personal pensions on nil commission terms that they offer on their panel. as a IFA, could you honestly recomend anything other than a very cheap tracker perhaps in your ISA or in a pension if your pay higher rate? if not, why do we need you for pensions?

Also, anyone investing on the basis of saving money on charges rather than making money clearly has their priorities wrong. you look to make money while spending at small a sum as possible doing it

Most IFAs are booming. All the "real" IFAs I know are seeing year on year increases and things have never been as good. The sales reps are suffering and I dont give two hoots about them. good for you, hope it continues

I suspect that the next decade will see IFAs earning more than ever before. Partly due to increased professionalism and qualification requirements reducing numbers and the products that the sales reps offer will be dumbed down meaning IFAs will have better options to market. Most of these dumbed down products will be the ones available direct as well.

You dont appear to know much about the type of business IFAs transact in all honestly, i have never used one and plan not too. but i would apreciate it if you told me what it is you do that i cant do myself. I would love to see you try some of the transactions we deal with. You wouldnt have a clue where to start. We do simple transactions as well where you may fair better but increasingly IFAs are not interested in that sort of business.

out of interest do IFA advise on where to invest or just give you options.

so would you ever say to a client, i think you should invest in.... the energy sector... gold.... bonds... btl....ect. and if it doesnt turn out so great can they sue you?

MortgageMamma

cells wrote: »

the truth is, they offer nothing of value and a lot of them will be out of work soon if they are not already. but look on the bright side, they can get themselves a good unemployed 10x income fake wage slips mortgage! :T

The only comments you could make on this thread that would have any clout whatsoever are constructive and informed comments. Now I'd usually go on to say exactly what I think of your juvenille narrow minded attitude, but thats just what you want isn't it? to disrupt and otherwise informative and constructive thread?

Buzz of you irritating little prickle!

dunstonh

However, I can beat them easily on pensions as can any IFA. this was for my father who used an IFA and he saved money "re-pensioning" with cava as for me, im on the company pension which im sure you cant beat. This has been evidenced in the pensions forum. Cavendish only offer a limited panel of pensions and the cheapest personal pensions can come in a lot cheaper than stakeholders and personal pensions on nil commission terms that they offer on their panel. as a IFA, could you honestly recomend anything other than a very cheap tracker perhaps in your ISA or in a pension if your pay higher rate? if not, why do we need you for pensions?

I have stakeholders and personal pensions on my books and whilst some stakeholders beat the personal pensions, the top performers over the years have been personal pensions. Tracker funds typically give you mid table performance (and dont bother debating that here. Just look at the UK all companies sector and you will see the FTSE all share trackers coming in mid table consistently year after year). That said I use trackers frequently in some areas but would never rely solely on one as that would be bad investing. Plus you just cannot get exposure in all areas with trackers. However using a tracker has nothing to do with the tax wrapper or product provider. The wrapper and its content are two different things.

Perhaps if your father had instructed the IFA he wanted cheapest rather than best then he may have got different advice. Repensioning has caused people to lose money as well. There are plenty of times on the pension forum we have seen people discuss doing it when what they have is better. They are the ones we see. We dont know about those that read the article, act on it and dont post.

Also, anyone investing on the basis of saving money on charges rather than making money clearly has their priorities wrong. you look to make money while spending at small a sum as possible doing it

Exactly. Which means a stakeholder pension is not the way to do it.

out of interest do IFA advise on where to invest or just give you options.

so would you ever say to a client, i think you should invest in.... the energy sector... gold.... bonds... btl....ect. and if it doesnt turn out so great can they sue you?

IFAs have to advise on where to invest. Its tied agents that give options. If you get it wrong and the investments are within the risk profile then you cannot be sued (or have a complaint upheld). However, you typically find that a structured portfolio matching risk profile will perform in line with the markets.

We have to be careful here as this is going OT as the talk is about IFAs and tied agents and not mortgage advisers. You have made it clear you are happy with DIY and there are providers and IFAs that are quite happy to cater for that. I have no interest in getting you to use an IFA and I wouldnt want you as a client (dont mean that disrespectfully but my clients use me for what I can do for them that they cannot do or in some cases what they cannot be bothered to do for themselves). I pay a decorator to decorate my house. Its cheaper if I do it myself but I am not conceited enough to think that I could do an equal job. Same goes with other skilled jobs and professions. I pay a skilled person to do a skilled job. Each profession out there has cowboys. No doubt yours does too.

BrokeRage

The funny thing is that this site is about consumer revenge, primarily towards institutions like banks etc. Mortgage brokers are being shafted by these organisations at present, but so is the consumer as it is the big mortgage lenders who are endangering free or low cost advice. Consumers should grasp that fact and support the independent scrutiny of mortgages.

Comparison websites are not about advice either.

cells

MortgageMamma wrote: »

The only comments you could make on this thread that would have any clout whatsoever are constructive and informed comments. Now I'd usually go on to say exactly what I think of your juvenille narrow minded attitude, but thats just what you want isn't it? to disrupt and otherwise informative and constructive thread?

Buzz of you irritating little prickle!

:rotfl:


like i said, if you truely offer an invaluable service you have nothing to fear. But i suspect you will go the same way as the milkman or the coal miner

MortgageMamma

right well you have had your say cells, you might be right but you only need to make your point once.

if you have something constructive to say other than the smug remarks you have made already then please do contribute.

If you continue to disrupt the thread then I suggest that all sensible contributers to the thread completely disregard your flame throwing and pretend you are not there.