Nerdy Note Discussion: Scottish Bank Notes Aren’t Legal Tender...

Duncx

http://www.siliconglen.com/Scotland/1_7.html

All Scottish banks have the right to print their own notes. Three choose to do so: The Bank of Scotland (founded 1695), The Royal Bank of Scotland (founded 1727) and the Clydesdale Bank (owned by National Australia Bank). Only the Royal Bank prints pound notes. All the banks print 5,10,20 and 100 notes. Only the Bank of Scotland and Clydesdale Bank print 50 pound notes. Scottish bank notes are not legal tender in Scotland. English bank notes of denomination less than 5UKP were legal tender in Scotland under Currency and Bank Notes Act 1954. Now, with the removal of BoE 1UKP notes, only coins constitute legal tender in Scotland. English bank notes are only legal tender in England, Wales, The Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. In Scotland, 1 pound coins are legal tender to any amount, 20ps and 50ps are legal tender up to 10 pounds; 10p and 5ps to 5 pounds and 2p and 1p coins are legal tender to 20p (separately or in combination). 2 pounds coins and (if you can get hold of one) 5 pound coins are also legal tender to unlimited amounts, as are gold coins of the realm at face value (in Scotland at least).
Northern Irish notes are not legal tender anywhere, a situation similar to Scottish notes. Whether Scottish notes are legal tender or not does not change alter their inherent value but it dictates their legal function. Credit cards, cheques and debit cards are not legal tender either but it doesn't stop them being used as payment. Only a minuscule percentage of Scottish and British trading is carried out using legal tender. Just because something is not legal tender certainly doesn't imply it's illegal to use.
The lack of a true legal tender in Scotland does not cause a problem for Scots Law which is flexible enough to get round this apparent legal nonsense, as was demonstrated some time ago when one local authority tried to refuse a cash payment (in Scottish notes) on the grounds it wasn't "legal tender", but lost their case when the sheriff effectively said that they were obliged to accept anything which was commonly accepted as "money", and that should their insistence on "legal tender" have been supported, it would have resulted in the bill being paid entirely in coins, which would have been a nonsense; stopping short of saying that the council would have been "cutting off their nose to spite their face", but seeming to hint at it.
For tourists: You can spend Scottish notes in England and they are exactly equivalent to their English counterpart on a one for one commission free basis. If changing Sterling abroad, do not accept an inferior rate for changing Scottish notes than is being offered for English notes as the two are equivalent. You are very unlikely to encounter problems spending Scottish money in England, I did it for many years and was never refused.
The definition of legal tender is something which is acceptable as payment of a debt. If you pay using legal tender, the other person has no recourse to chase you for payment. As part of the Skye Road Bridge tolls protest, people have paid in small coins using the greatest number of small denomination coins which constituted legal tender. Using entirely 1ps for instance would not have been legal tender and could have been refused. (This definition is a simplification, see the Currency section of "Halsbury's Laws of England" for a full legal definition.)
Britain came off the Gold Standard more than 60 years ago. The Scottish banks are allowed to issue a relatively small amount without backing, and the remainder of their issue has to be backed by Bank of England notes to the same value. So the BofE goes bust, the others go with it.
There is some info on monetary history athttp://www.ex.ac.uk/~RDavies/arian/other.html
More info on legal tender is athttp://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/about/faqs.htm
pictures of Scottish currency are athttp://www.scotbanks.org.uk/
More info on the Scottish legal system in general is at [1.8]

notime_2

When I was a student I did not even bother trying to use my n. Irish notes in shops (not worth it) but I was amazed when I tried to lodge one into my bank account and the employee said she would just go away and find out the rate of exchange!

As for using the Euro instead... surely we would never cope, would places accept French Euros, Spanish Euros, Irish Euros....?

harryhound

Brilliant first post!

I'll accept anything that I can recognise as real money and give a reasonable rate of exchange on the likes of Dollars and Euros.
I accepted a note from a Scot. I think it was a Clydsdale 50, a couple of years ago.

Tried to use it in a full sized TESCO for my groceries and after consultation with fellow cashiers it was refused with the excuse that "we don't accept that bank".

No wonder we are running a 13 billion deficit on our tourism account.

Dr_Baird

ronnie wrote: »

Dont think quid notes are around any more, not had one in my change for ages.

I have bother all the time when I am in England trying to use a Scottish note, last time I was buying petrol the girl told me they would not accept my £30

Needless to say I left the cash on the counter and walked off, she had no choice then.

As someone else has pointed out RBOS still issue Scottish £1 notes although you don't see them very often. I got £200 worth a few months ago and I had to wait 10 mins as they had to get them from their safe. I have heard that some £1 notes were going for over face value on ebay but not sure if that's true.

kajones_2

I live in Brighton about as far from Scotland as you can get on mainland UK and have never hada problem with scottish banknotes except once when the shop girl said the forgery detector didnt work on these notes.I was also a taxi driver and always accepted them without any problems. Their is will allways be someone who may never have seen a scottish note. how would you feel if someone offered you a £20 or £50 note you'd never seen before? I'm sure you'd be nervous. But once again,looking at some of the waspish replies from some north of the border forumites. I see proof again that the scottish are the most balanced people in the world, a chip on each shoulder.

scifi-pip

Ive never understood why we dont have a UK note anyway bearing the coat of arms, the union flag or whatever that way it would be acceptable everywhere. And why isnt there a bank of Britain also instead of seperate banks issuing their own designs, that some places take but others wont.

Dustangle

I am Scottish - very Scottish, and there is little I enjoy more than seeing a fellow Scot fulminating and turning red at the face at the thought, the very IDEA, that if he or she was to go to some wee sweetie shop in deepest Somerset or wherever and offer a Clydesdale Bank £20 note to pay for your pan drops, the girl behind the counter would ask a couple of questions. Just because it has had that effect I congratulate this site for raising the issue.

Get over yourselves! It is very nice, and all that, for us to have our distinctive notes. There is no problem using them in Buckie or Baillieston. But it really is a bit much to get all angry and patriotic because a shop girl doesn't recognise a note she as never seen before.

How many people offering a £20 from the Northern Bank in a fishmongers in Freuchie, or a haberdashers in Hawick, would expect the shopgirl to recognise it? How many people outside Norn Iron have ever seen a banknote from the province?

My advice is to go into a bank and get Bank of England notes before you go down South. Get notes from a cash machine once you're there. And don't shout at some shopgirl and call her stupid because she has never seen a Scottish or NI banknote. It's just rude. It makes Scottish people look chippy and generally shows a lack of class. Sandra White MSP, take note!

Even worser, though, is the kind of tartan tammy-wearing numpty who gets upset because a bureau de change in Kuala Lumpur or San Salvador won't take his Bank of Scotland notes.

Sooner we just adopt the Euro the better.

Dustangle

Actually - I would make it law that a Scottish person couldn't complain and moan about this issue unless they passed an exam in recognising banknotes from all four Northern Irish banks. :rotfl:

Joe65_2

MSE_Martin wrote: »

Hi folks, sorry for those that are upset by the fact... yet It is true... And of course we check our facts very diligently as always. Don't blame MSE Lawrence for this, he posted it, but I wrote it.

These facts are cross checked at the Bank of England, Bank of Scotland and a variety of other sources. The point being that legal tender doesn't mean very much.... a means of exchange is what counts.

Isn't the Bank of Scotland just another Building Society now 'though , HBoS, which has had to go cap-in-hand to its shareholders , just like RBoS had to too, to keep it afloat ?

As Halifax isn't a BS any more 'though - What Are They ? Just another plc. ?:eek:

Joe65_2

scifi-pip wrote: »

Ive never understood why we dont have a UK note anyway bearing the coat of arms, the union flag or whatever that way it would be acceptable everywhere. And why isnt there a bank of Britain also instead of seperate banks issuing their own designs, that some places take but others wont.

'fraid the BoE is just that.. the arm of Government that authorises, underwrites & if it comes to it, bails out other banks.