complaint upheld, so why am I not happy?

Katykat

I'd like a bit of advice about my Endowment policy. We applied to the Halifax to investigate our complaint that we were mis sold the policy. Their reply was " we are pleased to tell you we are upholding your complaint". However ,the letter then goes on to say that they are upholding the issues that we were not advised that an endowmwnt was the best way to repay the mortgage and that the fees were not properly explained, but they were declining the issues that they can find no evidence that we were given any guarantee that the mortgage would be repaid and that we would receive a healthy terminal bonus. After discussing this letter together we decided that it wasn't such a good response after all, as our main complaint was that we WERE told it would repay the mortgage with a substantial sum left over, but of course we did not receive a guarantee ( did anyone ever get a written guarantee??). We replied to them with copies of original papers from General Accident telling us that their company was doing very well thankyou and if this policy was being used to pay off a mortgage, there is no reason to believe that it wont. We also asked them if THEY have any evidence that we were told that the policy MAY NOT repay the mortgage.The reply from Halifax today states that they are confidant that the only guarantee given in the original documents is that the policy would pay out on the death of the policyholder and if we are still dissatisfied we should refer to the ombudsman. Now, should we be grateful that they have upheld some of the complaint, though they have said that we may or may not receive compensation, or should we go ahead and use the ombudsman.

rrwfotr

I've had the same issue Halifax told me that they could not find any evidence that I was mis-sold my policy and sent me 5 pages of facts and figures. However this does still does not help me out and I'm still in the red the Halifax like all banks love to take your money however when you have a problem no one wants to know and basically do everything they can to not pay out.

I advise you to go to the fsa and get them to look into your policy, getting anything out of a bank is like getting blood out of a stone!!!

Katykat

for rrwfotr. Did you get your complaint upheld or did you go to the fsa, & if so, did they find in your favour? we started this complaint with the view that anything was better than nothing, but of course as things develop, you get irritated by obtuse replies to your queries so you find yourself fighting for something that you thought should have been yours by rights. It stinks doesn't it? Like you say, they are up front when it comes to taking your money, but just try to get it back!

dunstonh

It stinks doesn't it? Like you say, they are up front when it comes to taking your money, but just try to get it back!

It stinks both ways at times. People are quick to blame the financial services companies but there are just as many people trying it on too.

I saw a complaint case recently where there was a sheet showing the total cost of the endowment mortgage and the total cost of the repayment mortgage. The endowment mortgage was about £20pm cheaper than the repayment mortgage on the sheet. In the clients writing, on that sheet, it said something like "I have chosen endowment as it is cheaper than repayment mortgage and i understand that the amount the endowment pays out is not guaranteed and could be more or less than the amount required". This was then signed. The person complaining had said in their complaint that they had not been told about repayment mortgages and didnt know about the risk of not hitting target.

Just as companies may try and get out of paying, there are tons of false complaints going in as well. I never did that many endowments as, luckily, mortgages have never been my main area. However, those that I did, the most common reason for doing so was that the monthly payments were cheaper on endowment. The risk issue never seemed to worry anyone. It was a case of going with the cheapest.

defender_of_the_weak

Dunston, please quantify 'tons'. More than 25%? Compare this with the wholesale misreatment of consumers who are genuine complainants. I think from your previous postings you have always been an IFA and perhaps had little exposure to tied salesforce practice but the way customers were treated by many of them was appalling. it is those same companies that now try and hide behind technicalities to avoid paying for the lack of previous investment in training.

dunstonh

Dunston, please quantify 'tons'. More than 25%?

Whatever figure I give, it is only an guess/estimate and is very much based on my own experience and those I know around me. I would say 33% would be a fair figure to guess at. However, I would also say that pre 1995 (around FPC qualification time) cases are probably more likely to be mis-sold than post 1995 cases, where documentation and disclosure would have been gradually improving on a year by year basis.

I think from your previous postings you have always been an IFA and perhaps had little exposure to tied salesforce practice but the way customers were treated by many of them was appalling.

I did a short stint as a tied agent when I first started out. The sales culture within tied salesforces would almost encourages mis-selling due to the pressures put on the individuals. i.e. sacked if you dont perform.

I hated my time as a tied agent but it was very useful to get the qualifications (paid for by the company and not me) and then leave afterwards to become an IFA.

I know a number of tied agents who I would never trust getting advice from and I know their technical knowledge is absolutely awful. Its just enough for them to pass their annual testing. They are not corrupt but are spoon fed information which they accept as being correct and pass it on to the consumer.

I do believe that many endowments were mis-sold. I just find it hard to accept some of the things you hear about complaints. How on earth do people (perhaps on both sides) remember a one off transaction that took place upto 17 years ago in such detail. I have clients that cant remember what we said 6 months ago, let alone that long ago.

Just as a side note. I will tell you the best motivator for giving accurate and inbiased advice. Make all advisors personally financially responsible for the advice they give. Currently only sole traders and partnerships for independent financial advisors have this. I have a £4500 excess on my PI cover. So, in the event of an upheld complaint, I would have to pay the first £4500. Its a damned fine way to make sure you do everything right.

EdInvestor

Surely a large percentage of missold endowments were via the banks and building societies (or subsidiaries/affiliates thereof) acting as tied agents for the life companies?

There are many stories of naive young people being required to get an endowment if they were to be granted a mortgage at all.

dunstonh

EdInvestor wrote:

Surely a large percentage of missold endowments were via the banks and building societies (or subsidiaries/affiliates thereof) acting as tied agents for the life companies?

There are many stories of naive young people being required to get an endowment if they were to be granted a mortgage at all.

You are almost certainly correct.

I recall that there was a mortgage deal on offer during my tied agent tenure that could only be taken in conjunction with an endowment.

greenwich

I am sure dunstonh is quite right in all he/she says. I distinctly remember as a first-time buyer in 1986 being told by the financial advisor at the estate agents that the endowment she was trying to sell me was guaranteed to pay off the mortgage. I was financially aware enough to know she was lying so I missed out on this particular financial scandal. So I dare say thousands of people were told similar lies and believed them. But, just as there lots of fraudulent insurance claims, so I'll bet there are many people just trying it on now.

seaniboy

my mate was mis-sold a endownment at 18 from Prudentual in 1991 as a "long term savings account" with a tie in of 15 years and guarnteed payout of more than any bank savings account over that period, 4 years ago they calculated that to find out they were losing money as it was an endowment not a savings account and cashed it in losing a further £1000 for doing so, does that qualify as missold considering the value could go down or indeed it was a Endowment policy not a savings account, and they were only told they would lose money via fees for and if they closed the account before the 15 yr term?
any views appricated

Katykat

I am glad that the regulars are posting in thi thread, but nobody has yet advised me what I should do. Should we accept the decision, which may or may not culminate in compensation, or should we go to IFA. Incidently, if we accept the decision, then Halifax offer no or little compensation, do we still have the option of using the ombudsman.? There seems to be a familiar theme in these cases, that many Banks refuse the complaint "because there is no evidence that we were told that the policy would pay off the mortgage". Now is this a valid point? Surely the whole point in taking the endowment out was to pay off the mortgage. & what evidence is acceptable?