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Landlord hasn't returned full deposit
QueenDebbie
Posts: 26 Forumite
I'm looking for a bit of advice on what to do now...
I moved into a privately rented furnished property, through a letting agency, in December 2005 and paid a £700 deposit.
The tenancy was never renewed, but we continued to live there until April this year. We moved out because the landlord decided to sell the house and gave us our notice in February. The letting agency didn't tell us the house was up for sale initially, and we saw it advertised and had a phonecall from a surveyor before they even let us know. They have always been a bit slow and useless, but after this they were really apologetic and nice to us - they set up a meeting with the owner of the letting agency to apologise. They reassured us that we were good tenants, they really wanted us to find somewhere else through them, and we asked about the deposit. They said it would only be held back if the house was damaged, and the kitchen and bathrooms were dirty, etc. The hall carpet had been stained because of a leak from the upstairs bathroom, and they assured us that we would not be penalised for this. They also told us we could accompany them to the inspection and resolve any issues there and then.
Because a lot of the appliances and furniture was quite new and nice, we asked if the landlord would allow us to buy them. They said we could have everything for £350, so we had all the kitchen appliances and bedroom furniture.
When we moved the cooker, the floor underneath it was completely filthy, and we found cutlery that didn't belong to us. The cooker was new and had been installed while we lived there, because the old one (electric) had been there since 1985 and the hob had some weird smelling smoke coming from it. We hadn't had a chance to clean the floor when they put in the new one because the delivery people just put it in. So the dirt had been building up since about 1985 by the looks of it. We cleaned the floor where the cooker had been (with some industrial strength oven cleaner) but it wasn't spotless.
We cleaned everything else and moved out.
We then received a letter saying they wanted to deduct some money from our deposit. They said that the kitchen and bathrooms weren't clean, there was rubbish outside the house, and the carpets needed cleaning. It said they would obtain three quotes and then let us know what deduction they would make.
We had left some binbags outside the house before we moved, because the next day was bin day and we can't drive to get to the tip. We assumed they had been taken, but it appears not.
We wrote back to the letting agency, stating we would be happy to return and remove the binbags ourselves. I pointed out to them about the cooker, stating it had obviously not been cleaned under there for years, and we didn't really feel that was fair. We also mentioned that we had been told that we would not be penalised for the stain on the carpet. We said that if they wished to clean the house, if they supplied us with quotes, we would advise them if we thought the charges were appropriate - we thought the house was clean but we accepted it may need to be professionally cleaned.
We had no response to the letter and they have now written to say they have taken £190 for cleaning the carpets, £90 for removing the binbags and £65 for cleaning. It enclosed a cheque for the rest of the deposit, and said we must sign and return the letter within 7 days or face 'further action', which I don't really understand.
The house is as clean as it was when we moved in, and I'm annoyed about the £90 to remove the rubbish when we told them we would arrange with them to take it away.
I'm intending to write back telling them I won't sign to agree with the deductions. I don't know whether I should cash the cheque, in case that makes it look like I agree.
So after all that information, what I really want to know is should I cash the cheque, and if the landlord won't negotiate is it worth pursuing it in the county court?
I moved into a privately rented furnished property, through a letting agency, in December 2005 and paid a £700 deposit.
The tenancy was never renewed, but we continued to live there until April this year. We moved out because the landlord decided to sell the house and gave us our notice in February. The letting agency didn't tell us the house was up for sale initially, and we saw it advertised and had a phonecall from a surveyor before they even let us know. They have always been a bit slow and useless, but after this they were really apologetic and nice to us - they set up a meeting with the owner of the letting agency to apologise. They reassured us that we were good tenants, they really wanted us to find somewhere else through them, and we asked about the deposit. They said it would only be held back if the house was damaged, and the kitchen and bathrooms were dirty, etc. The hall carpet had been stained because of a leak from the upstairs bathroom, and they assured us that we would not be penalised for this. They also told us we could accompany them to the inspection and resolve any issues there and then.
Because a lot of the appliances and furniture was quite new and nice, we asked if the landlord would allow us to buy them. They said we could have everything for £350, so we had all the kitchen appliances and bedroom furniture.
When we moved the cooker, the floor underneath it was completely filthy, and we found cutlery that didn't belong to us. The cooker was new and had been installed while we lived there, because the old one (electric) had been there since 1985 and the hob had some weird smelling smoke coming from it. We hadn't had a chance to clean the floor when they put in the new one because the delivery people just put it in. So the dirt had been building up since about 1985 by the looks of it. We cleaned the floor where the cooker had been (with some industrial strength oven cleaner) but it wasn't spotless.
We cleaned everything else and moved out.
We then received a letter saying they wanted to deduct some money from our deposit. They said that the kitchen and bathrooms weren't clean, there was rubbish outside the house, and the carpets needed cleaning. It said they would obtain three quotes and then let us know what deduction they would make.
We had left some binbags outside the house before we moved, because the next day was bin day and we can't drive to get to the tip. We assumed they had been taken, but it appears not.
We wrote back to the letting agency, stating we would be happy to return and remove the binbags ourselves. I pointed out to them about the cooker, stating it had obviously not been cleaned under there for years, and we didn't really feel that was fair. We also mentioned that we had been told that we would not be penalised for the stain on the carpet. We said that if they wished to clean the house, if they supplied us with quotes, we would advise them if we thought the charges were appropriate - we thought the house was clean but we accepted it may need to be professionally cleaned.
We had no response to the letter and they have now written to say they have taken £190 for cleaning the carpets, £90 for removing the binbags and £65 for cleaning. It enclosed a cheque for the rest of the deposit, and said we must sign and return the letter within 7 days or face 'further action', which I don't really understand.
The house is as clean as it was when we moved in, and I'm annoyed about the £90 to remove the rubbish when we told them we would arrange with them to take it away.
I'm intending to write back telling them I won't sign to agree with the deductions. I don't know whether I should cash the cheque, in case that makes it look like I agree.
So after all that information, what I really want to know is should I cash the cheque, and if the landlord won't negotiate is it worth pursuing it in the county court?
0
Comments
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Shelter site tells you what form to fill in.
All sounds fairly normal wear and tear so claim most of it back - fill in forms. Send thema copy first saying if you don't get deposit back you'll see them in court.0 -
What does it say with the cheque? any comment about "acceptance implying agreement" etc?
Would you say the the kitchen floor was "cleanable" ? Was this a free standing cooker?
By the sound of it you may just have to put it down to experience.0 -
poppysarah wrote: »Shelter site tells you what form to fill in.
All sounds fairly normal wear and tear so claim most of it back - fill in forms. Send thema copy first saying if you don't get deposit back you'll see them in court.
Yep, that is a sure way to give the LL indigestion.
Please read a tenancy agreement regarding cleaning etc - My current contract requires my tenant to clean all carpets etc, and to ensure that all internal decorations are in a good clean condition.
Why leave rubbish and then complain? at £90 to shift it, it sounds like a lot.
Remember that the LL is in it for business, if he has to take time doing any of this then he will want paying.0 -
Captain_Mainwaring wrote: »Please read a tenancy agreement regarding cleaning etc - My current contract requires my tenant to clean all carpets etc, and to ensure that all internal decorations are in a good clean condition.
You can only ask your tenant to return the property in the same condition as it was at the start of the tenancy. If you ask for professional cleaning for example then, as a LL, you would need to be able to produce evidence that there had been the same standard at the start of that tenancy. You have to also allow for the length of the tenancy - you can't withhold a deposit because internal decorations are looking "tired" although you are right that they should be clean if they were at the start of the tenancy.
Probably agree with you on the rubbish - tenants should ensure that all rubbish is removed. The high charge could mean that the LL is simply being greedy with his "costs" or it could be that there was sufficient to fill a skip, and/or that it was the sort of rubbish that the standard refuse collectors won't take.Captain_Mainwaring wrote: »Why leave rubbish and then complain? at £90 to shift it, it sounds like a lot.0 -
Captain_Mainwaring wrote: »
Why leave rubbish and then complain? at £90 to shift it, it sounds like a lot.
I left it because the bins were due to be collected the next day. There were three bags. I don't know how it cost them £90. But then, I don't understand how it costs £190 to clean carpets in a tiny two bedroom house either.0 -
You can only ask your tenant to return the property in the same condition as it was at the start of the tenancy. If you ask for professional cleaning for example then, as a LL, you would need to be able to produce evidence that there had been the same standard at the start of that tenancy. You have to also allow for the length of the tenancy - you can't withhold a deposit because internal decorations are looking "tired" although you are right that they should be clean if they were at the start of the tenancy.
Probably agree with you on the rubbish - tenants should ensure that all rubbish is removed. The high charge could mean that the LL is simply being greedy with his "costs" or it could be that there was sufficient to fill a skip, and/or that it was the sort of rubbish that the standard refuse collectors won't take.
I should clarify - I rent them out in a very clean condition and they come back the same way.
If the rubbish hadn't been there, then the LL wouldn't be able to charge for it.0 -
QueenD - do you have a copy of an inventory signed by both parties?
Did you take any photos or put anything in writing about the state when you initially took on the tenancy?
The LL cannot charge you for damage caused to carpets by a leak unless you caused the "leak" and then failed to notify them so that it could be dealt with at the time.
You cannot be asked to fund a "professional clean" unless the LL can show that he had handed the property to you in that state at the start. Seek advice from Shelter or the CAB on how to proceed to the small claims at the county court. http://england.shelter.org.uk/advice/advice-3005.cfm
Edit: just seen your follow up post QD - rubbish should have been cleared by you but a £90 charge for the removal of that amount *is* excessive IMO. Small claims court procedure if you get nowhere!0
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