Global warming and "convenience"

geordie_joe

magyar wrote: »

Because it would have no atmosphere.

So you would not have watched the match on TV if they didn't show the crowd?

Quasar

Ben84 wrote: »

It's very true that China and developing countries are consuming more and more energy/resources, but a lot of it is being used to produce the goods being sold in developed countries. I don't believe it's entirely China's pollution when most the products are being bought and consumed here.

Making products in China has the significant disadvantage that China is generally much less energy and resource efficient than other countries, and that the goods have to come further to their markets. The only reason why so much is now produced there is the economic advantage that labour is so much cheaper. It's ethically dubious and creates a lot of pollution. Consumers might be getting cheaper goods for now, but I think we will greatly disadvantaged in the end by this trend.

The only solution I can see to this problem is for people to consume things differently. Buy less things (so much stuff is never used or needed), and to buy better quality items that will last. Also avoiding disposable items if possible. Buying second hand is helpful too, and can be money saving. Buying more locally made items, even if it means made in Europe rather than China makes a difference too.

Quite so.

It's high time that we in the West now decide what is more important: to have a new coat every winter, for instance, cheap and cheerful (made in China), or a more expensive and longer lasting, at twice the price, made in UK or at most Europe, and lasting 4 or 5 years? I have chosen the latter, and am not averse to visiting charity shops which often sell very good quality clothing that has been looked after very well.

Print_Screen

Well once we reach Peak oil, if we haven't already then we are seriously screwed. The fact that the world has chosen to base its economy on a finite resource and encouraged growth from it will cause us to be foraging for food in a few decades if not years.
Even the most optimistic models predict peak oil in the 2030's. There is no alternative yet to oil, nothing as energy dense and easy to produce. So the future looks very dark indeed. I wish I could see light at the end of the tunnel but I can't unless someone can give me hope _pale_

Moggles_2

Originally Posted by Quasar
... emerging large economies such as China (1.5bn people) and India (1bn) people, greedily demand oil, gas and coal to power their miracle. They want the goodies we in the West have had for decades and can we blame them?

Originally posted by Ben84
It's very true that China and developing countries are consuming more and more energy/resources, but a lot of it is being used to produce the goods being sold in developed countries [like ours]. I don't believe it's entirely China's pollution when most of the products are being bought and consumed here.

Too true. Also, some of our councils - those that have run out of ground to bury our refuse - have been busy shipping our waste over to China. None of this is included in our calculations. It makes me ashamed

moonrakerz

Print_Screen wrote: »

. There is no alternative yet to oil, nothing as energy dense and easy to produce. So the future looks very dark indeed.

There are plenty of alternatives to oil - where did all our gas come from before they found it ready made under the North Sea ?
The UK is sitting on huge deposits of top quality coal, when it becomes economic they will make oil from coal - sooner possibly, rather than later.

There will then be plenty of holes in the ground as well, so we won't have to ship our refuse to China any more.

The future looks dark because politicians/newspapers etc want us to believe it is dark. Then we will turn to them for salvation.

In 1894 the London Times forecast that the volume of horse drawn traffic was so bad that by 1950 every street in London would be 9 feet deep in horse s**t.

The quality of forecasting hasn't improved much since then !

Moggles_2

moonrakerz wrote: »

The future looks dark because politicians/newspapers etc want us to believe it is dark. Then we will turn to them for salvation.

On the contrary, it's taken Green campaigners nearly 30 years to convince government that global warming and climate change is a reality. Until former Chief Government Scientist, Dr David King, spoke out in 2005, the Government was still firmly in denial.

Moggles_2

Print_Screen wrote: »

Even the most optimistic models predict peak oil in the 2030's. There is no alternative yet to oil, nothing as energy dense and easy to produce.

Well, renewables may one day provide the power for most human activities, but not air transport it seems, which brings us back to where we started.

Aviation is the most polluting form of transport on earth. Its damage to the atmosphere far exceeds that of ground-level transport and when you consider the social costs of aircraft noise and ever-expanding airports, it's hard to justify current thinking which seems designed to keep prices low and maintain artificially high levels of demand.

magyar

Moggles wrote: »

Aviation is the most polluting form of transport on earth.

It's far less overall than cars, isn't it? Or are you talking about 'per mile'?

I would argue that car usage is far worse for the planet than aircraft, which fulfil the basic logic of 'lots of people travelling in the same thing' rather than individual transport.

moonrakerz

Moggles wrote: »

On the contrary, it's taken Green campaigners nearly 30 years to convince government that global warming and climate change is a reality. Until former Chief Government Scientist, Dr David King, spoke out in 2005, the Government was still firmly in denial.

If I remember correctly, 30 years ago the (what is now the Green Lobby) "experts" were warning of another ice age !

I totally agree, "global warming and climate change is a reality" (over the past few years) - it has happened for millions of years - warming and cooling. I don't think anyone disputes that - what sticks in my throat are people preaching that I am the cause of this - rubbish !
It's is a good job I wasn't alive in the 1400s, I would have been burnt at the stake for heresy for disagreeing with the "Green message", just like those unbelievers who said the Earth was round or the earth went round the sun.
The evidence that man is causing the present round of warming is tenuous to say the least. What caused the previous rounds of warming, caveman's fires ? dinosaurs fa**ting ?

Al Gore says that mankind puts 70 million tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere every day. He doesn't mention the fact that mother nature puts 24,000 times that amount of our main greenhouse gas -- water vapor -- into the atmosphere every day.This does not 'prove' that global warming is not man made, anymore that it disproves it

There is more clap-trap spouted about CO2 levels than any other subject under the sun. The present level of CO2 in the atmosphere is extremely low by historical standards. Check the figures - but of course the figures quoted to support "man made global warming" are only quoted over a relatively short period of time otherwise it wouldn't support the argument. If atmospheric CO2 is significantly reduced, it is more likely that slower plant growth could affect world food supplies while having little effect on global warming.

But we are told otherwise !

We are told that the ice caps and the glaciers are melting - why is this bad ? perhaps "normal" for planet Earth is no icecaps and glaciers ! Perhaps having Birmingham under 5000 feet of ice was normal !

The thing that will destroy this planet is too many people. Try getting Al Gore to say that - No votes or Nobel prizes in that.!

Moggles_2

Originally Posted by moonrakerz
If I remember correctly, 30 years ago the (what is now the Green Lobby) "experts" were warning of another ice age!

Your memory deceives you, Moonraker.

I totally agree, "global warming and climate change is a reality" (over the past few years) - it has happened for millions of years - warming and cooling.

The pace of global warming is faster rate than ever before. That's the difference

The evidence that man is causing the present round of warming is tenuous to say the least.

The causes of global warming were once conjecture, but not now. The international scientific community agrees that the principal cause is carbon dioxide - rising emissions into the atmosphere from the burning of fossil fuels for electricity generation, transport particularly aviation, manufacturing, industry, heating and air conditioning.

It has become fashionable in some sections of the media to portray the scientific evidence about climate change (and the impact of greenhouse gas emissions from human activities) as an exaggeration, but the overwhelming majority of scientists agree on the main points, even if there is disagreement on some of the details.

One thing is certain. The longer we delay, the more serious the situation will become.