I can't issue a Paypal refund.

Avoriaz

I make it very clear in my listings that I will not accept Paypal for delivery to an unconfirmed address. Despite this, a buyer has paid me £41 with Paypal with an unconfirmed address. (my listing preceded the recent rules change)

I have told him I will refund his payment and he should pay by cheque or bank transfer, or get his address confirmed and pay again.

However Paypal won’t allow me to issue a refund. I get a flag stating

You cannot refund this payment because the recipient is currently unable to receive money.

What are my options?

How do I issue this refund?

The buyer has only 8 feedbacks, only two of which are recent and visible and these are for a few pounds each. He says he has recently moved from Spain. I have no reason to doubt him or his honesty but I am not prepared to take any risks. I'd rather relist the item or do a second chance offer for £2 less.


For the record, this is what my listing states about payment.

I prefer cash on collection but I will happily post to addresses in the UK mainland for £9 or to other UK areas for a price to be agreed. If you want this posted, I will accept cleared cheque, bank transfer or PayPal. If you pay by PayPal I will only post it to your confirmed PayPal address by one of the PayPal approved recorded delivery methods. This protects us both. I will not accept PayPal for collection nor for despatch to an unconfirmed PayPal address so please do not ask for this.

I think this is clear enough to anyone with a modicum of reading ability and intellect.

Thanks.

soolin

Although my situation was different I also had problem with a refund recently. In my case the buyer had overpaid p and p so I said I would refund a small bit, but when I went to do so it stated that I was unable tio process a partial refund in this case. Yet my buyer was well established on ebay and I was refunding within 24 hours of receiving payment.

Just reminded me actually that I emailed the buyer and asked whether i could send them a cheque instead, and i have never heard a dickie bird back.

Going back to your problem, there are some countries that you can't refund to, POland is one as I've also had that problem before. However even that doesn't appear to apply here.

I'm sure paypal are just making it up as they go along now.

Avoriaz

Thanks Soolin. I'm not sure what for but at least you took the time and trouble to reply.

I can see this one ending in tears. Unfortunately they will probably be mine.

I won’t be able to refund and open a NPB dispute and do a second chance offer unless I refund the payment.

I was only expecting about £15 to £20 for the item so to get £32 plus £9 postage was a pleasant surprise.

steviebabes

I would just send the item, I have posted loads of stuff to unconfirmed addresses without a problem. If they say its not arrived you can claim back £36 from Royal Mail.

Avoriaz

steviebabes wrote: »

I would just send the item, I have posted loads of stuff to unconfirmed addresses without a problem. If they say its not arrived you can claim back £36 from Royal Mail.

Thanks Stevie,

It is a 4 or 5kg guitar amplifier so is probably too heavy for Royal Mail. I normally use a PayPal approved courier for heavy items.

If the buyer claims non receipt he will win a Paypal claim as I have delivered to an unconfirmed address and I will lose a courier claim as they will have a signature.

I can either trust this buyer or insist on an alternative payment.

I normally stick rigidly to what I state in my listings and this buyers low feedback and emails do make me slightly suspicious. This is his latest email.

I have been trying to reopen my paypal account with the same email and UK address (instead of the Spanish one) but it is not allowing me to do so. Is there any way you can send the item to me without the need for doing all of this? It starts being a bit of a mess. I mean you have received the money already, and it is not an expensive item, plus you can see my ebay ratings, never had a problem at all. I would appreciate if you could 'make it easier' for me. I can open another paypal account with a different email using my UK address, it wouldn't be a problem but then it wouldn't be the account from which I have sent you the payment from. Any suggestion? Thanks.

I replied asking him to pay by cheque or bank transfer. I have 100% feedback on 427 trades versus his 100% on 8 trades so it is easier for him to trust me than for me to trust him, especially as I clearly stated my conditions in my listing.

Bloody buyers. Who needs them eh?

Premier_2

Avoriaz wrote: »

Thanks Stevie,

It is a 4 or 5kg guitar amplifier so is probably too heavy for Royal Mail. I normally use a PayPal approved courier for heavy items.

If the buyer claims non receipt he will win a Paypal claim as I have delivered to an unconfirmed address and I will lose a courier claim as they will have a signature.

I can either trust this buyer or insist on an alternative payment....

There are many paypal buyers who have not confirmed their address. Whilst I agree that it is wise to be wary, they are not all scammers.

You can do some other things to help give you improved confidence that the buyer is not going to scam you. Such checks could include:
a) Check the buyers feedback (sorry but have to start with the obvious!)
b) Check the accuracy of the address details (Royal Mail website)
c) Check out the delivery area (put the postcode into google maps and look at the satellite view)
d) Check 192.com or bt.com to see if the buyer is on the open electoral register and/or phone book at the address specified.

Remember, if the item is signed for on delivery and the buyer subsequently claims that the item was not received, that could well be fraud/theft that should be reported to the police and/or considered for private prosecution.

Winning a paypal dispute may allow the buyer to win the battle, but they shouldn't be allowed to win the war if they are in the wrong.

I've also noticed a growing trend amongst couriers to include the address at which the item was actually signed at where this is different to a specified delivery address (e.g. a neighbouring property) in an attempt to prevent fraudulent claims for non-delivery.

Avoriaz

Thanks Premier but I really want to avoid faffing about with all those checks and double checks.

I really don’t want to be suing someone for £41 or chasing the Police over it.

I much prefer to stick rigidly to cash, cheque or Paypal for confirmed addresses only and let Paypal take the risks.

I’d rather drop £2 and sell to the second bidder. I’m still making a decent profit.

Premier_2

I understand your frustration, Avoriaz, but you are in a particularly difficult situation at present.

I understand you had your own terms & conditions, but unfortunately they don't mean much. (It's a little like those sellers who used to say Paypal only accepted if funded by existing paypal balances i.e. no credit or debit card funded payments accepted). The rules are simple. If you say you accept paypal, you have to accept it if that is what the buyer wishes to pay with.

Failing to supply leaves you open to receiving a non-performing strike if the winner so elects.

Your situation is further complicated because you seem unable to refund the initial payment received. I don't fully understand why that has happened, but if you don't refund or supply the item, you could be receiving that summons yourself or a knock on the door by the local constabulary.

You could refund the original winner by an alternative payment method, but that could still leave yourself open to the risk that the buyer makes a (fraudulent) claim via paypal for an item not received, once again subjecting you to a non-performing seller strike, which they may well do if they are a scammer you believe they may be.

The simple checks I have suggested above could easily have been done within the time it has taken you to make the 4 posts you have already done in this thread.

As for suing someone for £41, well I have sued for less, and it can all be done with ease from the comfort of your current position at moneyclaim.gov.uk.
But I doubt it will come to that, as that will only be necessary if they are the scammer you seem to assume they are simply because they have an unconfirmed address on paypal.

As for selling to the next highest bidder? Well again you are making some big assumptions here
(a) that the person will accept the SCO
(b) that they do have a confirmed address registered with paypal if that is the way they elect to pay.

Good luck with whatever you decide.