Unfair Estate Agents Fee

Altarf

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

"No sale no fee" doesn't imply to anyone sensible "you don't have to pay anything unless your sale goes through ... and you can change your mind without penalty at any point prior to completion". That is an unfair interpretation of the phrase.

Similarly "no withdrawal fee" pretty obviously means, to a reasonable person, "no fee if you withdraw your property from the market before we've found you a buyer" not "no fee if you change your mind AFTER we've found you a buyer".

I disagree. I think that there is sufficient ambiguity in both, especially when the statements are combined (and under your interpretation both statements would mean the same thing), with the effect that there is no certainty in what was meant. Therefore any conditions attached to the offer, should at least appear as a note on the advertising.

MarkyMarkD

benb76 wrote: »

chill, it's all open to interpretation, but to assume that all small print Ts&Cs are legally binding would be very naive.

I didn't say that. I was talking about the Ts & Cs relevant to the OP's point, not making a vague general statement about unfair contract terms.

altarf I sort of agree that both expressions would mean the same thing under my interpretation (only "sort of" because an EA could charge a 2% selling fee and a £500 withdrawal fee, and there would be circumstances like the OP's where one would apply rather than the other) but then that would be explained as advertising "puffery".

hedgen

I had a similar question a little while ago. Mine was with regards to the price of the HIP which was £299 plus VAT, however unbeknown to me, in the small print, at the back of the form - which I didn't even realise was there, is said that if we ended our contract this would then be £399 plus VAT.

I was so annoyed that I hadn't read this small print! Anyway, I ended up calling Consumer Direct, who basically said that as it was clear in the T&C's it was likely I'd have to pay, but to try the Ombudsmen for Estate Agents, I did this, and was told the same, but given the name and address of the person at the Estate Agents that I should contact for a complaint. I then wrote to the Estate Agent, letting them know why I was angry, and that I was planning on writing this letter to their head lady. I got a phone call from the Estate Agent, they were very apologetic that they hadn't made this clear, and said that they had tried to waive the cost, but couldn't as it was company-wide not in their office. I said fin, whatever. I plan to pay it, but make the letter of complaint.

The two companies I phoned took record of exactly which branh of which Estate Agents I had a problem with, and my name and address. I guess if enough people complained, it would become a problem for the Estate Agents.

Hope my experience helped.

mike69_2

Hello again everyone and thanks for all your advice. I'll start with an update.

I spoke to the owner of the EA who insisted that the website had an * after the no sale no fee gaurateed statement. I was sat at my computer at the time and knew that there wasn't. He looked while we were on the phone and agreed that he was wrong. We went round in circles for a while and then ended the call.

I saved a copy of the website on to my computer, and as expected later that day they had the website changed. A few days ago I got a letter from them asking me if I would make an offer towards the fees (is this an admission of guilt?) giving me 7 days to respond. On the 7th day (yesterday) I hand delivered a letter after business hours offering £200 towards their costs.

I got home from work today to find a letter saying that because i hadn't responded in time (I had) they are going to take me to court unless i pay the full amount in 72 hours. It also threatened such things as bad credit ratings etc. This letter was dated the 27th (yesterday) as was obviously sent before I replied.

I'm hoping that they will be in contact again (I'll call them tomorrow) and accept my offer. Otherwise I'm tempted to take my chances in court.

Would this be a silly thing to do? Also I'd like some advice on the fact that even after a week of the house being "Sold" they hadn't attached the Sold board to the sign. This is stated as something they will do in the T&C's. Are they therefore breaking the T&C's or could they argue that a week is not a long enough period to wait for a sold board.

Many Thanks Again
Mike.

MarkyMarkD

Having "sold" on the sign is for their benefit, not yours. It shows that they are successfully selling properties. If you don't like the sign being there, given that the house is sold, simply take it down.

Neillgb

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

Having "sold" on the sign is for their benefit, not yours. It shows that they are successfully selling properties. If you don't like the sign being there, given that the house is sold, simply take it down.

Any thoughts with regard to the OPs other points in his last post then Marky?

Neillgb

mike69 wrote: »

Hello again everyone and thanks for all your advice. I'll start with an update.

I spoke to the owner of the EA who insisted that the website had an * after the no sale no fee gaurateed statement. I was sat at my computer at the time and knew that there wasn't. He looked while we were on the phone and agreed that he was wrong. We went round in circles for a while and then ended the call.

I saved a copy of the website on to my computer, and as expected later that day they had the website changed. A few days ago I got a letter from them asking me if I would make an offer towards the fees (is this an admission of guilt?) giving me 7 days to respond. On the 7th day (yesterday) I hand delivered a letter after business hours offering £200 towards their costs.

I got home from work today to find a letter saying that because i hadn't responded in time (I had) they are going to take me to court unless i pay the full amount in 72 hours. It also threatened such things as bad credit ratings etc. This letter was dated the 27th (yesterday) as was obviously sent before I replied.

I'm hoping that they will be in contact again (I'll call them tomorrow) and accept my offer. Otherwise I'm tempted to take my chances in court.

Would this be a silly thing to do? Also I'd like some advice on the fact that even after a week of the house being "Sold" they hadn't attached the Sold board to the sign. This is stated as something they will do in the T&C's. Are they therefore breaking the T&C's or could they argue that a week is not a long enough period to wait for a sold board.

Many Thanks Again
Mike.

Try the link below with regard to unfair terms.

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/before_you_buy/think_of/unfair-contracts

'Good faith' is the relevant term. EA's 'good faith'...lol!!

In view of the agents behaviour, changing website details etc., I think you will find they will back down rather quickly. They obviously realised they were on a sticky wicket by giving you the opportunity to to make an offer.

Remember they don't want to go to law any more than you do!!!

Perhaps posters on this thread that chose to jump to the EA's defence should consider the behaviour of said EA, as detailed in your last post, with regard to changing their website.

nutmegman

Ok, this is an interesting thread, remember you are in a business to consumer contractual relationship which affords benefits to protect consumers against heavy handed contract terms etc.

Firstly, I would like to back up Ben76, he is correct in that you are not duty bound to accept any contract if you can argue that it is unfair. (this is just a matter of fact in Contract Law)

Secondly, my take on this contract is that it is perfectly fair as the terms clearly set out the charges should you withdraw after a buyer is found.

The courts view….can a reasonable person understand the terms are they clear, in this case yes. Are the charges reasonable, yes it wouldn’t take an EA long to account for £500. Were the terms pointed out to you at the time of entering into the transaction, yes.

In my opinion if you goto court you will loose as the court will test the reasonableness of the contract and for me the EA is in a strong position.

The EA has acted very fairly indeed by inviting a settlement offer from you, (the courts will like this) Now I am afraid rather foolishly you hand delivered the letter after closing hours so I am really not surprised at their response.

REMEMBER – if you go to court and loose you will have to pay their legal fees, this shouldn’t be excessive as the claim is only £500 , HOWEVER, the EA is entitled to claim interest on the late payment at BOE base rate +X and additional charges for chasing the money from you letter etc…….this is a bit like a bailiff scenario charges keep mounting etc…..

MY ADVICE – you have two options

1, Contact the EA and ask for a face to face meeting, in this meeting state this is all rather silly and neither of us wish to go to court be calm and courteous, then ask the EA for a settlement figure he would be happy with then try and negotiate this down. Negotiation levers for you are bad press through word of mouth or local rag

2, If 1 fails, write a letter offer to pay the EA the full £500 quid. Yes by doing this you will be admitting you owe the money, the clincher here is to offer them £20 a month, keep the letter very very short and sweet simply offer £500 at £20 per month and that’s it…….and send it recorded delivery or by hand obtaining a receipt. (if this fails let him take you to court)

2, if you think hell with it I will take him to court I really think you will loose, I am sure the EA will have no problem providing proof they found a buyer. If you have done stage two in court simply state yes I owe them £500 but cannot afford that in full now, I have made him an offer which he refuses then plead you position why you withdrew etc etc. Hopefully the courts will recognise you have attempted to make an offer and you should get a reasonable outcome.

You may not get the result you want but you may take a few years to pay him off……..

AND FINALLY – forget all this silly business with regard to advertising you really don’t have a leg to stand on it like Tesco advertising in the shop window baked beans for 10p a can, you go into the shop pick some up get to the till and the they are suddenly 45p a tin there is no point harping on about the advert legally it means nothing.

An advert is an invitation to treat, in law the EA offered his services as per the contract, you then accepted those terms .

GOOD LUCK

snarffie

Can't you just up your price for the prospective buyers, and when they say 'no', you are able to withdraw because you in effect, have no buyer! In the current market, you may not even have to up your price.


There must be a reason for this being stupid, but I am a simple man.

Paddy_Charlie

I don't think the 'no sale, no fee' argument will stand up in court for you. Fact is they got you a sale and through no fault of the EA and due to your own circumstances you didn't complete/finalise it so they should be due compensation as per the T&Cs which were signed.

Although I do think they shouldn't be able to charge such a high fee.

Hope it works out for you though.