conservatory quote-advice on cost-negotiations?

giddy-aunt

I have had a quote from a local company for the following-

3m by 4 m conservatory-Victorian design.

This work includes

Knocking through existing window-no doors through -just opening

4 electric points
1 fan light (Viper)
Double opening French doors
Pikington k glass
Moving manhole
Foundations


Moving water pipes and waste pipes around a corner

Removal and bricking up an existing external door and making good-plastering and rendering

New front door-composite with frame and fanlight-

Total £17500

Broken down to (what I know of)--- £400 for bricking up door
£1200 new front door
£50 moving waste and water pipes.
£350 fan light
£15500 conservatory.

This doesn’t include flooring-we said we would do that.

Is this fair?

Any advice about if I should barter –and how much would be acceptable to try?
Thanks
SW Wales

phill99

Don't just make comparisons based purely on cost. Base your decision on value for money, professionalism, after sales service etc. Check that they are members of FENSA, are they Master Builders? ASsk for references, examples of work. Any decent company will be happy to provide them. Have you had other quotes? What are they coming in at?

giddy-aunt

phill99 wrote: »

Don't just make comparisons based purely on cost. Base your decision on value for money, professionalism, after sales service etc. Check that they are members of FENSA, are they Master Builders? ASsk for references, examples of work. Any decent company will be happy to provide them. Have you had other quotes? What are they coming in at?

Thank you Phill99. I have had a few quotes from others-and they come in at a few thousand less..very impressed at work quality /but have to check on Master Builders as they are FENSA but cannot see anything on Master Builders on their website or brochures.
Will be speaking to someone later-will update.
Ta

headpin

I wouldn't worry about whether they are members of the Federation of Master Builders. Just ask for references from and contact details of previous people they have worked for, say the last 4 jobs they've done and speak to those people.

The Federation of Master Builders is a trade organistaion, not a consumer protection orientated body. It does not regulate, manage or monitor who joins and what service they actually then provide to the consumer. Basically any old cowboy can become a member without too much trouble.

kellymundy

Wondering what info your going on regrarding who can get into trade assosiations these day headpin? I don't work for the FMB but I do work for a trade assosiation and what you said is totally wrong and the only major trade assosiation the I know of these days that doesn't vet businesses properly before they are given membership is the federation of small businesses.
I personally would ignore what headpin has said about trade assisiations not being there for customers pertection as most offer a concilliation service and free legal advice to the customer as well as the member. Headpins got a very old fashioned view of trade assosiations, and if we we're having this discussion 15-20 years ago I'd totally agree with him but legislation has made us tighten up our vetting procedures when the companies first apply for membership but most of us have gone one step further now have in place very tight ongoing vetting procedures to.
I would deafinately recommend going through a trade assosiation to anyone who wants a reliable builder, carpenter or any other type of trade person. I thing I would say though is that it's worth looking through other assosiations as well as the FMB, they're all pretty good (worth mentioning to them you've had quotes from members of other trade assosiations as they tend to get a bit competetive!!!).
Please note that I purposely haven't mentioned who I work for so as not to cloud the issue here.

headpin

kellymundy wrote: »

........
Please note that I purposely haven't mentioned who I work for so as not to cloud the issue here.

So why bother putting that then?

headpin

To quote from the FMB website:

"What is the FMB?
The FMB is a trade association established over 60 years ago to protect the interests of small and medium-sized building firms – today it is the largest trade association in the UK building industry.

The FMB is a source of knowledge, professional advice and support for its members, providing a range of modern and relevant business building services to save them time and money.
The FMB is independent and non-profit-making, lobbying continuously for members’ interests at both national and local levels.


Membership Criteria


Only those builders and specialists who can prove their skills and good business standing are accepted as members. Membership criteria and checks include:

• A minimum of 12 months trading, or is otherwise able to demonstrate experience enough to warrant membership
• 6 references including one from a 'professional' or Local Authority Building Control
• Local FMB Branch approval
• Public and employer liability insurance
• No un-discharged bankruptcies or relevant outstanding County Court Judgments against company or directors
• VAT registration (where appropriate)
• Confirmation of business address/details
• Credit checks, public record and director checks."

Note there is nothing there about consumer or customer protection. And many of the requirements for membership are stautory obligations or duties that apply to any business.

Of course there is always the Masterbond Warranty. You can get the customer to pay some more to cover your own poor or shoddy work - £75 premium on a £5k project (not clear whether anyone gets a commision on selling it!!!). Now most professional organisations and bodies would normally require their members to carry Professional Indemnity Insuarnce or similar to cover the customer if the member messed up. Not the FMB, they want their members to be able to sell you a warranty to cover the work their member is suppose to be delivering in a competent and workmanlike manner.

As I said it seems to me that there is nothing the FMB offer in the way of comfort. I would still suggest personal recommendation and refernces that you can personally check are by far the best way. Although as a lot of work is sub-contracte out you will often be at the mercy of whatever subbie does your particular project as often a contractor will use differnt subbies for the same trade depending upon their price and availability. However, there are many good and honest builders out there. Often you will be unlucky to get really help up by a cowboy.

And finally an established and genuine builder will not ask for any money up front. They will have trade accounts that are settled monthly and do not need to request money from a customer to assist their cash flow at the begining of a job. On larger jobs though that last for more than say a month expect to make interim (often referred to as stage) payments to pay for the work and the materials actually delivered to date. It is never wise to pay any money up front except where it is for specialist materials that may need to be purpose made and could not be used elsewhere and in that situatio it would often be safer to ask to pay the supplier direct and get the supplier to make sure your payment for and interest in those material is clearly marked on the sale invoice.

kellymundy

I didn't put what assosiation I work for because it would be self advertising which is a) spamming, and b) opens up a big can of worms for people like you to have a go at when all they actually know about these assosiations is what the bloke down the pub told them and what they can quote off a website, which no offence, any fool can do.
Every assosiation runs differently and offers different benefits to both the member and the client of the members. Also if you think that all the benefits of these assosiations are put on a web page then you are a fool.
The TA that I work for doesn't list all our benefits on our website purely because there are so many that people would take one look at the page and not bother reading it (it would look like a terms and conditions page!). All members are issued with a folder listing all the benefits and are well aware of what is offered to both them and their clients.
When you hire someone that states they are a member of a trade assosiation it is up to you to check that they actually are (we do take people to court for using our logo when not a member and they do get fined heavily!). All members will carry an i.d card with a membership number and will be able to provide you with the phone number for the head office for you to check up on them. You should be told when calling what benefits you will receive as the client of a member (if the member hasn't already told you, which they should have done to be honest!).
As for insurance most TA's will ask for public liability (we do) and will offer a consilliation service if things aren't up to standard, which we find 99% of the time is effective enough for the work to be put right and left in the high standard that is expected from our members. Believe me I agree that the FMB does have big gapping holes in their vetting procedure e.g the not asking for insurance, but to imply that going through any trade assosiation is not a good way to find a quality builder as they're full of cowboys is just completely wrong and to be honest slanderous!
I have been ripped off by so many trades people in the past (never ones that are members of a governing body I might add) but since I have started using people who are part of the assosiation that I now work for I have never had a single thing to complain about when it comes to the quality of their workmanship of their customer service (and I'm a perfectionist!).
I do agree with you on one thing though headpin, even if you go through a trade assosiation I would still recommend asking for references from at least the last 3 jobs and ideally go and actually see the work, just because the work is up to standard for some people doesn't mean it will be up to the standard that you would really want (if you're like me, a total perfectionist!).

woodbutcher_2

In my opinion trade associations are a waste of time but that's a different story.

To me the price quoted sounds steep but then i dont know where you live.I would also point out that if you are having no doors through to your house then you will need building regs.Have the company mentioned this?Do you need planning permission?A lot of companies say you dont need planning for conservatories but you do in some cases.

If i were quoting for the work you mentioned i doubt it would come in over £12000 off the top of my head.But you pays your money and takes your choice.