Landlord wants to remove Utility bills from Rent.

tbs624

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

I am not disputing the fact that you can have a verbal tenancy. However, you cannot have a verbal Assured Shorthold Tenancy. So a tenancy with no written AST agreement in the correct form means that the tenancy is likely to be an assured tenancy.... which means that the landlord cannot simply terminate the tenancy after six months on the giving of two months notice, as he could with an AST.

Sorry LD - I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one - if you have a verbal agreement for a property you moved into after 15 Jan 1989 but before 28 Feb 1997 then yes you'd possibly have an assured Tenancy.

After 28 Feb 1997, you're likely to have an AST (this is for England & Wales- in Scotland an AST has to be written) but any Tenant in this situation should seek professional advice before signing a subsequent agreement or if the LL seeks to evict him/her.

chappers

regardless of the nature of the assumed tenancy, as there is no written contract, only the statutory parts of a tenancy would apply.normally things like utilities would be covered under signed contract as part of the tenancy agreement.
I think your friends really have little choice other than to pay the bills if for no other reason than if the LL decides to stop paying them it will be them left with no electricity, gas etc.
Not sure of the exact legal position but I would hazard a guess that the LL would have no responsibility.

zzzLazyDaisy

tbs624 wrote: »

Sorry LD - I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one - if you have a verbal agreement for a property you moved into after 15 Jan 1989 but before 28 Feb 1997 then yes you'd possibly have an assured Tenancy.

After 28 Feb 1997, you're likely to have an AST (this is for England & Wales- in Scotland an AST has to be written) but any Tenant in this situation should seek professional advice before signing a subsequent agreement or if the LL seeks to evict him/her.

Hi, yes, you are right about the written requirement - I've amended my post, thanks for the heads up - the point is duly noted :-)

I still think they should seek advice of Shelter of the RAC as the thing is a mess, and who knows what the terms and conditions were/are?

zzzLazyDaisy

Chappers - from what OP says, it sounds like the Landlord has been paying all bills, so it seems as if the bills are in his name. That means - as between him and the utility companies - he is contractually obliged to pay. If he refuses to pay and the utilities are cut off, I believe that would count as unlawful harassment

Extract

What is harassment?
Harassment can include anything done by a landlord, or any other
person, which interferes with your legal rights in your accommodation.
Some examples might be:

Cutting off gas, electricity, or water supply;

In order for payment of the utilities to be a tenant's responsibility they would have to be in the name of the tenant. Of course the landlord could increase the rent to include a contribution towards the utility bills - and that seems to have been the intention, although it appears that the landlord under-estimated the consumption.

Bungarm2001

We had a similar situation with a tenant that we took on (we bought the property with her still in) and found out that the rent included the utility bills.

We thought the bills couldn't be that bad, (single mum out all day..two kids at school..) and the one or two we saw weren't so high to put us off buying...anyway..to cut a long story short, we were absolutely stunned when we eventually had bills coming in which were for almost twice as much as our own home.

After a visit, we found out she would leave the central heating on 24/7 with the bluddy windows wide open!! I don't think it was deliberate, more the fact that she didn't know how to control the boiler properly.

Needless to say, when her tenancy agreement came up for renewal, we stopped paying the bills, but did warn her we would do this months in advance. We also reduced the rent accordingly.

It saddens me to see that other people would condone deliberately using (wasting????) the utilities 24/7 if the LL was paying. If I knew for certain my tenants wouldn't do that, I would be more inclined to think about including them in the rent, but sadly, I KNOW I would get ripped off so I will never do it.

You guys should prepare to pay for your own utilites soon regardless of what or how your tenancy started, 'speshally if you have been taking the pi$$ out of the LL

sdooley

I understand what you are saying about tenants being wasteful but equally Landlords not having to contribute anything towards the bills gives them little or no incentive to invest in an effecient boiler, insulation, etc. If I were Housing Minister I'd make it compulsory for all such bills to be split 50:50.

Bungarm2001

You are wrong...there is a huge incentive out there for LL's to invest in efficient boilers, insulation etc etc It's called Landlord Registration and to get this, a LL has to comply with the HHSR's or s/he could be liable to hefty fines. (Part of the HHSRS deals with temperatures etc if I remember correctly...could look it up)

There is also the EPC inspection/intrusion(energy performance certificate) which frankly, is a load of nonsense, but nevertheless, LL's are required to submit to this farcical bit of erroneous legislation or again be subject to a fine.

Of course, responsible LL's who do consider the welfare of their tenants and the condition of their properties will already have all these requirements in place regardless of whether they are required by law or not. The dodgy LL's who are supposedly being targeted by these particular 'rules' of course will continue to duck and dive and give the rest of us a bad name.

chappers

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

Chappers - from what OP says, it sounds like the Landlord has been paying all bills, so it seems as if the bills are in his name. That means - as between him and the utility companies - he is contractually obliged to pay. If he refuses to pay and the utilities are cut off, I believe that would count as unlawful harassment

But he could simply change the bills over to the tenants names

sdooley wrote:

If I were Housing Minister I'd make it compulsory for all such bills to be split 50:50.

never heard of anything so ridiculous.
Why should I as a landlorl pay for someone elses energy consumption do you want me to pay half of my neighbours too.
If you were the housing minister and had your way i still wouldn't pay half the bills as i would increase the rent accordingly.

zzzLazyDaisy

chappers wrote: »

But he could simply change the bills over to the tenants names

.

Not without their consent he couldn't.

sparky.shark

All these comments have been particularly interesting... I will advise my friend tonight when I see him.

Also to prevent the landlord pulling a fast one that’s if he/she were to and in case it doesn't stop just at the Elect/Gas bills.

What other bills should the landlord be paying V’s what my mate should pay.


Cheers.